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Adoption record, Arthur Cratchley, Joyce Gardner 1920

MWS said:
On the 1957 ER James appears to be back at Witton Lodge Road. Joyce isn't there but there is a Kathleen M, who I think James' marries in 1956 so probably divorced.
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Yes I saw that James remarried. Divorce...poor Joyce. Not an easy life for her.
 
pjmburns said:
Eliza Cratchley's probate was granted to Joyce Walsh (single woman). So did she split from James?
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Ah, yes. I remember seeing that many years ago and wondered who Joyce Walsh was and why wasn't anything given to Arthur's 3 girls from his first marriage. Two of those girls moved to Australia so that might have been a bit hard to give them anything but the other sister Lily lived in Leicester
Astoness said:
who did joyce marry

lyn
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MWS said:
In regards a possible half brother. Samuel Thomas Crutchley was born in Stafford, the son of a William Crutchley and an Emily Fowler (no relation as far as I can see). So that tree, like so many unfortunately, is wrong.
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And that is probably why I haven't got an answer to my message through Ancestry. The tree owner does not know!
 
What a great service. Thanks for that. Father's name is not filled in. I thought I might do the same for Joyce's Marriage to James B. Walsh to see who Joyce's Father was but I don't think I can do the digital online for marriages, only for births and deaths. Is this right?
 

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Julie Treharne said:
What a great service. Thanks for that. Father's name is not filled in. I thought I might do the same for Joyce's Marriage to James B. Walsh to see who Joyce's Father was but I don't think I can do the digital online for marriages, only for births and deaths. Is this right?
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Yes - marriage certs can be bought but only as a full certificate.
 
Julie Treharne said:
Ah, yes. I remember seeing that many years ago and wondered who Joyce Walsh was and why wasn't anything given to Arthur's 3 girls from his first marriage. Two of those girls moved to Australia so that might have been a bit hard to give them anything but the other sister Lily lived in Leicester
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Probate is not the same as a Will. Probate is usually granted to an executor, who carries out the instructions of the deceased. So the 3 girls may have been beneficiaries.

I think you can purchase a copy of a Will (if there is one).
 
MWS said:
Probate is not the same as a Will. Probate is usually granted to an executor, who carries out the instructions of the deceased. So the 3 girls may have been beneficiaries.

I think you can purchase a copy of a Will (if there is one).
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So are you saying that Joyce was the Executor of the Will, if their is a Will?
What if there was no Will? Does Joyce inherit everything?
 
pjmburns said:
If there is a Father's name on the marriage cert it may be "made up" to save face.
I have seen that before.
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I would really like to get a copy of Joyce's Marriage certificate. Do you know of a quicker way to get a copy. I can't see anything on the GRO site other than priority which is super expensive. I have ordered them before and snail mail to Australia usually takes about 2 weeks.
 
The probate records just state who it was granted to, this is not the person who inherits though it could be.

If there was no Will then she would have died intestate, in which case there may be a number of people who could inherit. As it looks like that Joyce wasn't officially adopted by Eliza, Eliza's closest relative may have been Emily. I'm not sure but I doubt in this case Arthur's 3 daughters would have a claim as they were not blood relatives.

This is all hypothetical and I may be wrong.
 
MWS said:
The probate records just state who it was granted to, this is not the person who inherits though it could be.

If there was no Will then she would have died intestate, in which case there may be a number of people who could inherit. As it looks like that Joyce wasn't officially adopted by Eliza, Eliza's closest relative may have been Emily. I'm not sure but I doubt in this case Arthur's 3 daughters would have a claim as they were not blood relatives.

This is all hypothetical and I may be wrong.
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Very Interesting...thanks
 
I need my laptop to look for a will. That will now be tomorrow.
Julie Treharne said:
I would really like to get a copy of Joyce's Marriage certificate. Do you know of a quicker way to get a copy. I can't see anything on the GRO site other than priority which is super expensive. I have ordered them before and snail mail to Australia usually takes about 2 weeks.
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I don't know of a quicker way. We would have to wait for post as well.
 
pjmburns said:
I will try and investigate - never known it not show a result before
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I am not sure what is happening.
I have tried several times and nothing has come up but...
I just logged
Tried again and only entered :
Cratchley and 1959 on page 1
1959 on page 2 and got a result. No idea why.
I then got this screen.
1739177249934.png
Click and open and the page will appear with the order form next to it.

If that doesn't work for you let me know.
 
pjmburns said:
I am not sure what is happening.
I have tried several times and nothing has come up but...
I just logged
Tried again and only entered :
Cratchley and 1959 on page 1
1959 on page 2 and got a result. No idea why.
I then got this screen.
View attachment 198977
Click and open and the page will appear with the order form next to it.

If that doesn't work for you let me know.
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Thought I must have been doing something wrong. Thank you so much for your help. Cheers
 
Julie Treharne said:
Thought I must have been doing something wrong. Thank you so much for your help. Cheers
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Julie Treharne said:
Thought I must have been doing something wrong. Thank you so much for your help. Cheers
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Have just managed to order Eliza Cratchley's Will. Not a simple process. You are right...you only need to put in the Surname and the year of death. From what I read, I think I will be able to view this online which is great. Also the cost was only 1 Pound 5 shillings which I thought was very cheap. Everything costs a fortune these days.
 
Julie Treharne said:
Have just managed to order Eliza Cratchley's Will. Not a simple process. You are right...you only need to put in the Surname and the year of death. From what I read, I think I will be able to view this online which is great. Also the cost was only 1 Pound 5 shillings which I thought was very cheap. Everything costs a fortune these days.
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thats great julie well done...be interesting to see what the will says...i agree that is a reasonable price not expensive at all

lyn
 
Astoness said:
thats great julie well done...be interesting to see what the will says...i agree that is a reasonable price not expensive at all

lyn
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Hi Lyn & Janice. It has been quite some time since I bought a will from GRO so can't remember how much they cost but they came snail mail. There was never any other option. I am so impressed with the service & cost that I can't stop thinking who else I can get a will for.:):):)
 
Also ordered a Marriage certificate for Joyce Gardner and James Walsh...just curious to see who Joyce put down as her Father if anything at all. Now this will be snail mail and about $26 for me, but just had to do it! haha
 
hi julie i know what you mean..once we start digging we cant stop :D .. i think that some people think that certain documents are still expensive to order but times have changed so its always best to check..but very often just to find things out we have to spend a few pounds on certain certs to find out if our research is correct...a few years ago ancestry started allowing us to see marriage certs for free then we just printed them off...before that it cost me a fortune to buy them so i have saved a lot of money since then..but a reminder that marr certs for all churches are not available free just depends if ancestry have got them and what year the marr took place..think i have got that right but janice is more of an expert on this..she has helped me out many times

lyn
 
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We are keen as the majority of C of E church records for Birmingham are online up to 1930s I think. Less so for other areas but always worth checking Ancestry before ordering. RC records for Birmingham are on FMP. Register Office records have to be bought at GRO.
The will service has been around for a while and is a brilliant price.
 
pjmburns said:
We are keen as the majority of C of E church records for Birmingham are online up to 1930s I think. Less so for other areas but always worth checking Ancestry before ordering. RC records for Birmingham are on FMP. Register Office records have to be bought at GRO.
The will service has been around for a while and is a brilliant price.
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This is good to know...thank you
 
Hi all...I have just received the Will of Eliza Cratchley and the two beneficiaries are Lilian Jane Smith (middle child of Eliza's husband Arthur Cratchley) and Joyce Walsh. I am beginning to think like you Janice, that Joyce was not formally adopted by Arthur and Eliza, BUT she definitely was a big part of the family as she has remained in the family picture right until the death of Eliza. So yes, I think too that Joyce is the niece of Eliza. I am eagerly awaiting the marriage certificate of Joyce and James Walsh to see what name, if any, was entered as Joyce's Father. Fingers crossed!
Interesting fact...Lillian Jane Cratchley the middle child of Arthur Cratchley was the only one of his 3 girls to be included in the Eliza's Will. As I have said before, it might have just been too darn hard to include Arthur's 2 other daughters who both had moved to Australia. I do remember Lillian Jane Smith came to Australia to meet her sisters after about 50 years of not seeing one another. I think that I would have been about 11 or 12 making Lillian's visit somewhere about 1959-1960. Maybe Lillian used her inheritance to fly to Australia (remembering that Eliza Cratchley died Nov 1958 and Probate was granted early 1959) and maybe she gave her two sisters a little money or something from their father Arthur Cratchley.. Either way, it doesn't matter...I know that they were all a very good family.
 

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