Adoption record, Arthur Cratchley, Joyce Gardner 1920

[Julie Treharne]

On the 1921 Census, my Great Grandfather Arthur Cratchley is listed with his wife Eliza and an "adopted daughter" Joyce Gardner whose age is 1 year and 4 months old.
Birth registers in 1920 lists Joyce Gardner with the mother's name as Gardner. Joyce's surname on marriage records list her name as "Gardner. Someone's tree on Ancestry lists Joyce's parents as Arthur Cratchley & Emily Gardner. My question is was an adoption ever taken place? Is Joyce a Garner or a Cratchley.
Also on the Census it states that Joyce's parents are both still alive. Something has been cross out, but I cannot read what it says.
Arthur Cratchley was married to Fanny Hill in 1882. Fanny died in 1887 leaving 3 little girls. One of whom is my Grandmother.
Arthur married a second time to Susannah Agnes Wilson in 1891. Susannah died in 1894. They had 1 child Arthur1891-1892.
Arthur married a third time to Elizabeth Fowler in 1896. Elizabeth died in 1958. They had a child George Arthur 1907-1907.
Arthur Cratchley died in 1933.
I have a photo of Arthur, Elizabeth, Joyce and a boarder. My mother wrote on the back of the photo saying "Joyce, adopted." This photo was taken on 15 August 1932 - 1year before Arthur Cratchley died.
How can I find out who Joyce's father is AND if Joyce was legally adopted by Arthur Cratchley. Where can I find a record of this adoption please?
Hope you can shed some light on this mystery.
Thankyou,
Sincerely, Julie Treharne, Perth, Western Australia

 

[Astoness]

hi julie i have moved this thread from forum rules to surname interests as you may receive more of a response..sounds complicated

lyn

 

[Julie Treharne]

Thanks Lyn. I found it hard to know where to put it! Yes my thread does seem difficult, but I have to try.
Regards, Julie

 

[Astoness]

Thanks Lyn. I found it hard to know where to put it! Yes my thread does seem difficult, but I have to try.
Regards, Julie

absolutely julie its always worth a try and we like a mystery so fingers crossed

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

Is the surname Garner (as in title of thread) or Gardner as in post 2)?

 

[pjmburns]

If Joyce is adopted why isn't she on the 1921 as Cratchley?
I also think "adopted" was used for other relationships. Not suggesting it is in this case but I have seen it used for step children

 

[Julie Treharne]

Is the surname Garner (as in title of thread) or Gardner as in post 2)?

Sorry, It is Gardner...my fingers move too fast for my computer. I tried to alter it after I posted but wouldn't let me. You sure have a very keen eye!

 

[Julie Treharne]

If Joyce is adopted why isn't she on the 1921 as Cratchley?
I also think "adopted" was used for other relationships. Not suggesting it is in this case but I have seen it used for step children

Beats me why she wasn't on the 1921 Census as Cratchley. And why would my Mum who was very proud of her family and used to write little notes everywhere regarding the family put Joyce "Cratchley" adopted on the back of the photo? My Mum born 1913, came out to Australia when she was 7 years old the year that Joyce was born. She went back to England for a holiday when she was 14 years of age so Joyce would have been 7 years old. Why would my Mum write on the photo "Joyce adopted", when she didn't really know her.
"Adopted" as in step children???
And why was the marriage registration under Joyce Gardner???

 

[Astoness]

hi julie what interests me is who is on the 21 census...forget for a min the adoption bit...apart from joyce gardner aged 1 year 5 months there is also emily gardner single aged 34...and a mary ann gardner aged 62 (who could possibly be emilys mom)
is it possible that emily is joyces mom ?..
do you have a birth cert for joyce ?

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

I suspect she married as Gardner because that was her name. She wasn't "adopted" as we know the term but they didn't know how else to describe the relationship.

 

[pjmburns]

Tracking back.
As per post 1 Eliza Cratchley was formerly Fowler.
She had a much older sister called Mary Ann and a younger sister called Emily.
I am guessing Emily Gardner is Mary Ann's daughter - abd possibly Joyce's mom.
As Lyn says birth cert might reveal name of her Mother.

 

[Astoness]

i have now edited thread title to read gardner

lyn

 

[Julie Treharne]

hi julie what interests me is who is on the 21 census...forget for a min the adoption bit...apart from joyce gardner aged 1 year 5 months there is also emily gardner single aged 34...and a mary ann gardner aged 62 (who could possibly be emilys mom)
is it possible that emily is joyces mom ?..
do you have a birth cert for joyce ?

lyn

Hi Lyn...Yes I agree. I think that Mary Ann Gardner is Joyce's Mum. It would make sense that Grandma, Mum and baby Joyce were visiting Arthur Cratchley. Why they were visiting, I do not know!! No I don't have a birth certificate yet as I don't know that it would tell me anything as the register of births states that Joyce Gardner's mother was "Gardner." So I would say that there is a fair chance that Joyce was illegitimate and no father is recorded. I will get a birth certificate but I don't hold much hope of finding what I am looking for. I thought that it might be easier to follow the adoption records first, that is if it was a legal adoption.
I have messaged two people on Ancestry who state that Joyce's Father is Arthur Cratchley and her mother is Emily Gardner. Neither of these two people have gotten back to me. I am thinking that they are just guessing about Arthur and he is not their line anyway. Well that is what I am thinking!!
What are your thoughts about Parents of Joyce "still living" on the Census. Something has been scribbled over but I think the last word could be "dec'd." If so, were they trying to save face by saying dec'd but then thinking twice about lying and saying that both parents still living. Interesting theory.

Julie

 

[pjmburns]

I was thinking Emily Gardner was Joyce's mother.
I also think the birth cert will give Joyce's mothers first name. Confirming if it is Emily or not.
I also don't think she was adopted - just looked after.

 

[Astoness]

Hi Lyn...Yes I agree. I think that Mary Ann Gardner is Joyce's Mum. It would make sense that Grandma, Mum and baby Joyce were visiting Arthur Cratchley. Why they were visiting, I do not know!! No I don't have a birth certificate yet as I don't know that it would tell me anything as the register of births states that Joyce Gardner's mother was "Gardner." So I would say that there is a fair chance that Joyce was illegitimate and no father is recorded. I will get a birth certificate but I don't hold much hope of finding what I am looking for. I thought that it might be easier to follow the adoption records first, that is if it was a legal adoption.
I have messaged two people on Ancestry who state that Joyce's Father is Arthur Cratchley and her mother is Emily Gardner. Neither of these two people have gotten back to me. I am thinking that they are just guessing about Arthur and he is not their line anyway. Well that is what I am thinking!!
What are your thoughts about Parents of Joyce "still living" on the Census. Something has been scribbled over but I think the last word could be "dec'd." If so, were they trying to save face by saying dec'd but then thinking twice about lying and saying that both parents still living. Interesting theory.

Julie

julie at the age of 62 mary ann gardner would be too old to be joyces mom...maybe you meant to put emily

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

If you order the digital image of Joyce's birth it is £3 (our money) and is instant.

 

[Astoness]

I was thinking Emily Gardner was Joyce's mother.
I also think the birth cert will give Joyce's mothers first name. Confirming if it is Emily or not.
I also don't think she was adopted - just looked after.

i agree with you on all points jan....very unlikely there was a proper adoption especially in those days when children were just taken in by friends and family and bought up by them..

julie an example is for ages i could not find my grandmother kate alice downes on the 1911 census she would have been 3 years old..anyway i was talking to dad about this and it was only then he told me that his mom lost both of her parents in 1908 and she was taken in and well looked after by friends george henry and maud doyle who had no children of their own..so i looked on the 1911 census for george henry and maud doyle and sure enough there was nan down as kate alice doyle daughter to head of hous which of course she was not.. in later life they must have told nan that they had kind of adopted her because in 1928 she got married under her birth name of downes..

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

Julie.
The "both living" is a requirement for children under the age of 15.
15 and over you needed to enter single or married.
I think that both her parents are alive but that she is being raised by Arthur and Eliza (who is most likely her aunt).

 

[Julie Treharne]

Nearly midnight here and my brain is fogged!
There is a CrUtchley tree on Ancestry owner Keith Fuller. He has Joyce Gardner as half brother to Samuel Thomas Crutchley nb different spelling. Keith Fuller's tree says that Samuel Thomas Crutchley's mother is Eliza Fowler. Samuel Crutchley was born in 1912 but my Eliza Cratchley was married to Arthur in 1896. I do know that Cratchley and Crutchley are sometimes the same name. Somewhere the A was not joined at the top and so it looked like a u. Is Keith Fuller confused with the records?

If you order the digital image of Joyce's birth it is £3 (our money) and is instant.

never heard of a digital image. How do I do that, please?

 

[pjmburns]

Interestingly Emily Gardner seems to continue to live with them at Wyrley Road as she is listed on the 1930 eroll
Not sure who the Fisher family is unless boarders

 

[MWS]

It looks like that Joyce married under the name Gardner and possibly has 2 sons.

Emily Gardner appears to marry a George E Crutchley in 1936.

 

[pjmburns]

1939 register still at 142 Wyrley Road but Emily and Joyce not listed.

 

[pjmburns]

It looks like that Joyce married under the name Gardner and possibly has 2 sons.

Emily Gardner appears to marry a George E Crutchley in 1936.

1935 eroll - so is he Cratchley or Crutchley??

 

[MWS]

He is listed as Crutchley in 1939 (Stoneleigh Road) and his death, as is Emily at hers.

Joyce is at Witton Lodge Road in 1939 with future in laws.

 

[MWS]

In regards a possible half brother. Samuel Thomas Crutchley was born in Stafford, the son of a William Crutchley and an Emily Fowler (no relation as far as I can see). So that tree, like so many unfortunately, is wrong.

 

[Astoness]

It looks like that Joyce married under the name Gardner and possibly has 2 sons.

Emily Gardner appears to marry a George E Crutchley in 1936.

who did joyce marry

lyn

 

[MWS]

never heard of a digital image. How do I do that, please?

You do it from the GRO website. Once you find the correct person, you select them by clicking the circle to the left, Then underneath the person's name options will appear on how you can purchase the certificate - certificate, PDF & digital.

Not all are available for everyone and I'm not sure if there's any restrictions for overseas buyers.

 

[MWS]

who did joyce marry

lyn

Not totally sure but James B Walsh in 1939. Dob on 1939 Register & at death (though incorrectly a year out) doesn't contradict her birth reg.

 

[pjmburns]

Eliza Cratchley's probate was granted to Joyce Walsh (single woman). So did she split from James?

 

[MWS]

On the 1957 ER James appears to be back at Witton Lodge Road. Joyce isn't there but there is a Kathleen M, who I think James' marries in 1956 so probably divorced.