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1st Aeroplane Flight

motorman-mike said:
My first flight was in 1947 from Northolt, London to the USA on an American Airways airliner of some sort. I was too young to remember it other than it was at night when we took off and we landed at Shannon before the Atlantic crossing during which, apparently, I slept peacefully whilst all those around me were being airsick! My Mum said we landed in torrential rain at Newfoundland before we got to the States where we landed at New York. I think Shannon and Newfoundland might have been refuel stops. My well known interest in buses goes back that far because I do remember riding in a BOAC one and a half decker coach from central London out to Northolt to catch the plane. Do any of you aviation experts know what type of transatlantic airliners were in use with American Airlines back in 1947 please?
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I think the airliners in use by the American airlines at that time ,going by memory only,so could well be wrong,were Boeing Stratocruiser,Lockheed Constellation,and Douglas DC7.The Douglas DC3 (Dakota)would still be in use,though not,I would think,for trans-Alantic flights.I stress that these are going from memory only,I am only too willing to be corrected.Which Airline used which aircraft I can't recall,but I seem to think TAA used the Boeing.....Mal.
 
mallyb2 said:
Talking about first flights,this was apparently the first airliner to land at Elmdom airport,in may 1939. It is a D.H. Dragon Rapide,but does anybody know where it arrived from,or where it went after it left Elmdon?
Better still,does anybody remember it?......Mal.
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Hi Mal
This was the first scheduled flight on 1st May 1939.
The very first aircraft landed 20 March 1939 and was a DH.90 Dragonfly
G-AEDH owned by Western Airways bringing in a chap named Whitney Straight who announced his intention to start up a regular service between Weston-super-Mare - Bristol - Elmdon - Manchester from June.
( The Dragonfly was an upgraded more streamline Dragon Rapide )

Your photo from the Birmingham Post & Mail shows DH.89 Dragon Rapide
G-A something (not found yet) but named "Volunteer" and owned by Great Western & Southern Airlines which was routing ; Liverpool - Manchester - Elmdon - Bristol - Southampton - Ryde - Shoreham and back. (phew! some trip if your going end to end )
As this departed a Railway Air Services DH.86
landed enroute Croydon - Elmdon - Liverpool - Belfast - Glasgow

Thanks to "Aviation in Birmingham" by Geoffrey Negus & Tommy Staddon
Lots of photos and info on Elmdon, Castle Bromwich and other snippets of local aviation history published 1984 out of print but you may pick one up at Books Fairs or Aviation Fairs

You can tell a spotter by his suntanned adams apple !

Regards Royston
 
Royston,many thanks for that info.I did realise by the caption on the original photograph that it was not the first aircraft to land at Elmdon,but it was ,strictly speaking,wrong to announce it as the first airliner to land,as the Dragonfly,like you stated,is also an airliner,or what would be known as an airliner in those times.Very,very interesting,where do you find this information ?....Mal.
 
mallyb2 said:
I think the airliners in use by the American airlines at that time ,going by memory only,so could well be wrong,were Boeing Stratocruiser,Lockheed Constellation,and Douglas DC7.The Douglas DC3 (Dakota)would still be in use,though not,I would think,for trans-Alantic flights.I stress that these are going from memory only,I am only too willing to be corrected.Which Airline used which aircraft I can't recall,but I seem to think TAA used the Boeing.....Mal.
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Many thanks Mal. To think that I may have flown in any one of those great prop driven airliners is amazing although I am pretty sure it wasn't a Dakota. For some strange reason although not really interested in aircraft I have always been and still am impressed by Stratocruisers so I wonder if.....
Mike
(Sorry to go off thread but our return journey in 1948 was by sea on a converted Liberty ship that was actually to be scrapped on arrival in Cherbourg! We were dropped off on to tender to land at Plymouth)
 
Hello Royston,here is a picture,very poor quality unfortunately,of a D.H.90 Dragonfly.It is pictured at Duxford in 2008.As you say,you can tell that the fuselage in particular is far more streamlined than that of the Rapide,I wonder if it was one of De.Havs. early attempts at the wooden 'sandwich' construction,which led via the 4-engine airliner,was it called the 'Albertros', ultimately to the legendary 'mosquito'..............Mal
 
Hi Mal,

The DH90 wasn't built via the moulded plywood/balsa construction per the Albatross and the Mosquito. If memoery serves (and it usually doesn't these days) the DH90 was a steel tube frame with plywood covering.

Years and years ago I used to visit a company in Acton, London, that in those days manufactured wooden assemblies for industrial use, and out the back they still had under a tarpaulin an original concrete mould used for making Mosquito fuselages. I've been racking what's left of my brains to remember the name of that company, but it won't come. I can remember being told that the main problem with the moulded construction was the laminating adhesive - they eventually settled on a phenolic resin made by the CIBA Company in Switzerland, and somehow all through the War they were able to obtain supplies. Don't ask me how they did it, but they did! There was a problem with Mosquitos sent to the Far East at the end of WW2, when the adhesive proved to be vulnerable to high temperature and high humidity.

The Mossie in the RAF Museum at Cosford, on close inspection, has a fabric covering all over the moulded fuselage, presumably doped on. I'd give anything for some photos of Mosquito construction, but can't find anything on the internet.

Big Gee
 
Hi Big Gee,a friend of mine,another ex-modeller,used to work for British Aerospace at Broughton,near Chester,and he somehow wangled it so he was on the maintainance team looking after their Mosquito.This was obviously before it's tragic demise in,I think, 1996.Another two friends,both brothers ,worked at Liverpool Airport as aircraft painters,and they actually worked on this aircraft,and brought a load of pictures of the aircraft in the paint-shop.This would have been around 1969,I would think.I did see some pictures of Mosquito's under construction somewhere,I can't remember if it was in a library book or one of my own books,I'll have a root through them and see if I can find some,if I do,I'll stick them on the site..........Mal.
 
Hi again Big Gee,you were saying that De.Havs. obtained their resin adhesive from Switzerland throughout the war,I wonder if it was brought in by British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC)who operated a number of Mosquito's registered as civil aircraft,and flown by,I think,BOAC (i.e.civilian) crews.These aircraft flew to either Switzerland or Sweden,I can't remember off-hand,on the 'ball-bearing' run,but many other 'contraband' was brought in,including the occasional passenger in the bomb-bay!Must have been very comfortable,I don't think!Of course,if they were bringing in the adhesive by the above means,it's a bit like the chicken and the egg,which came first?.......................Mal.
 
Big gee you wanted some production photos of Mosquitos. Wish I could put in links but this info should get you there.
www.virtualmuseum.ca
look forCommunity Memories, Toronto Areospace Museum then Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview. There are over 200 photos some showing workers building the aircraft in Canada. Not sure of the picture quality but I hope its worth you time looking.It is not an easy site to navigate. Failing that enter Mosquito Production in Google and look for vitualmuseum.ca on the first page of results

Regards ....arkrite.
 
Just finished looking at the photos and drawings. All 225 of them. You should be able build you own Mosquito from them. Its a fine memorial to the Canadians who built the Mossey......arkrite.
 
Arkrite said:
Just finished looking at the photos and drawings. All 225 of them. You should be able build you own Mosquito from them. Its a fine memorial to the Canadians who built the Mossey......arkrite.
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Hi Arkrite,just finished looking at them myself.You're right,it's a great site,also the odd interesting shot of contemporary aircraft , cars, and the buses used to transport the workers.You'll enjoy this,Big Gee!............Mal
 
Sometimes, when I have time on my hands, I latch on to things that members are having difficulty finding. I spend hours at it mostly without success e.g. the Northfield Triple Murder. However this one came up trumps. I am glad to have been of some help.:thumbsup:
 
Arkrite said:
Big gee you wanted some production photos of Mosquitos. Wish I could put in links but this info should get you there.
www.virtualmuseum.ca
look forCommunity Memories, Toronto Areospace Museum then Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview. There are over 200 photos some showing workers building the aircraft in Canada. Not sure of the picture quality but I hope its worth you time looking.It is not an easy site to navigate. Failing that enter Mosquito Production in Google and look for vitualmuseum.ca on the first page of results

Regards ....arkrite.
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Thanks arkrite! https://www.virtualmuseum.ca/PM.cgi...h&scope=CommunityMemories&start=1&fl=0&page=1
 
Hi Mal,

Of all the aircraft at Cosford the Mossie is the one I hang around the longest. There is something about it that kinda gets me! I've also been to the Mosquito Museum near Hatfield where they keep the prototype, and that's awesome too. Don't know what it is about the Mossie, but it has a certain 'something' most other WW2 aircraft lack. Maybe to a life-long aeromodeller like me it's the fact that it used balsa in its construction. And how did they ever shoe-horn a 4000lb Blockbuster into its bomb-bay? My big regret is that I've never seen one flying. I never built scale model aircraft, but if ever I do it'll be a Mossie!

I recently read a book about WW2 espionage, and there was a photo of some poor bloke stuffed into the bomb-bay of a Mossie, and he didn't look particularly chuffed about it! Yes, I believe they flew in ball-bearings from Sweden all through the war - although they were neutral the Swedes were obviously sympathetic to the Allies, not even complaining too much when we sank the boats carrying high-quality iron-ore to Germany, or so I've read.

If you can find some photos of the Broughton Mossie, that would be fantastic!

Hi Arkrite,

Thanks for the Canadian Museum link, but when I try to access the Mossie pix, computer says "No!" I'll have another go later.

Thanks, both.

Big Gee
 
Thank you Cadeau for putting up a working link. That parts still a mystery to me. Technology stumps me, still trying to work out how a door knob works.

Big Gee , I hope you access the site. Having read your last post I think you will be in seventh heaven. The thumb nails are small but a couple of left clicks will enlarge them.Good quality to. The last time I saw a Mossy flying was over my school in Shrewsbury in the early 1960's. the sound of its twin Merlins reminded me of a two-stroke Foden lorry flat out.I remember reading a book written by a South African night fighter pilot. He flew deep intruder missions and hung around enemy airfields waiting for german night fighters to land. The Mossie was ideal for that. Best of luck with the pictures....arkrite
 
Arkrite said:
Thank you Cadeau for putting up a working link. That parts still a mystery to me. Technology stumps me, still trying to work out how a door knob works.
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Arkrite, you're welcome and if you need any tips on "how to do..." just post me an IM.

In the late 50's I was at Middle Wallop summer camp with 492 squadron of the ATC and on a roam with two mates of the surrounding fields we 'found' three dumped Mossies! They looked as if after the war they had landed there in a field and been abandoned and were completly grown over. We spent many fantastic hours playing there.

Graham.
 
There was a chap we knew back in the 70's who used to tell us his dad used to fly as observer on the British Aerospace Mosquito,from Broughton.He got the usual calls of spinning a line,but it turned out to be true!He also told us the Mossie in question had 'odd' engines,another round of cat-calls! it turned out that that was also true,they were obviousley both Merlins,but they were a different 'mark' to each other.I think one was a mk16,and the other a mk22,but I can't really recall the figures now,but they definitely didn't match.........Mal
 
mallyb2 said:
Royston,many thanks for that info.I did realise by the caption on the original photograph that it was not the first aircraft to land at Elmdon,but it was ,strictly speaking,wrong to announce it as the first airliner to land,as the Dragonfly,like you stated,is also an airliner,or what would be known as an airliner in those times.Very,very interesting,where do you find this information ?....Mal.
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Further investigation into the identity of the Dragon Rapide used on the first scheduled service named " Volunteer" has revealed it to be G-ACPP
Now there's a suprise. This aircraft was actually based at Elmdon ! between June 1948 and Sept 1950 and operated by "Yellow Air Taxis"
I remember seeing this on a regular basis during that time, you couldn't miss it as it was bright yellow, nearly always parked on the apron.
 
mallyb2 said:
Hello Royston,here is a picture,very poor quality unfortunately,of a D.H.90 Dragonfly.It is pictured at Duxford in 2008.As you say,you can tell that the fuselage in particular is far more streamlined than that of the Rapide,I wonder if it was one of De.Havs. early attempts at the wooden 'sandwich' construction,which led via the 4-engine airliner,was it called the 'Albertros', ultimately to the legendary 'mosquito'..............Mal
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Hi Mal me again.

I remember seeing a de Havilland Vampire that had been in outside storage
for some time at I think the now defunct South Wales museum Cardiff.
This had succumbed to the welsh weather and I was amazed to see that where the painted had peeled the fuselage was of plywood construction.
All that wood in close proximity to the jet engine seems a little hairy to me
So the plywood skin construction was passed on from the Mosquito.
( Vampire wings and twin booms where metal )
I also saw a Mosquito under renovation at the de Havilland Aircraft Heritage Centre, London Colney Just off the A6 past Hatfield,
which is now finished and on display with another.
Well worth a visit - over thirty aircraft on display.
 
Royston said:
Further investigation into the identity of the Dragon Rapide used on the first scheduled service named " Volunteer" has revealed it to be G-ACPP
Now there's a suprise. This aircraft was actually based at Elmdon ! between June 1948 and Sept 1950 and operated by "Yellow Air Taxis"
I remember seeing this on a regular basis during that time, you couldn't miss it as it was bright yellow, nearly always parked on the apron.
Click to expand...

There are some great photos on this site including one of G-ACPP https://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?page=2&q=De%20Havilland%20DH.89A%20Dragon%20Rapide&u=type&sort=reg_a_z and one from the same site of Don Everall Rapide G-AGDP at Elmdon https://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1099973/
​
 
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Hi Royston,

I remember seeing a de Havilland Vampire that had been in outside storage
for some time at I think the now defunct South Wales museum Cardiff.
This had succumbed to the welsh weather and I was amazed to see that where the painted had peeled the fuselage was of plywood construction.
All that wood in close proximity to the jet engine seems a little hairy to me
So the plywood skin construction was passed on from the Mosquito.
Click to expand...

That must have been a pretty early Vampire, as I believe only the first few built had moulded wood fuselages (I think they were referred to as 'The Spider Crab' for reasons I don't know). Later Vampires had all-metal construction. I should imagine that the wooden fuselage carried quite a few kilos of asbestos to provide insulation from the engine...

I was on my way to the Cosford Museum this morning when I suddenly remembered I should have been somewhere else...rats! They have (or had) a Vampire in Swiss markings.

Big Gee
 
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