• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

WW1 Fallen & Boldmere, St Michael's Church

DerekP

New Member
Yes, there I was filling out a branch of my family tree and stumbled across this site, with the reference to Edgar James Pring and with lots of useful information about him. I like solving puzzles too and I have enjoyed being sidetracked by John and Sarah Ann Pring. My posting just gave the key bits of information about the family, enough to give the overall picture. I don't have online access to many US sources and couldn't take that area much further, but I am happy to explain my reasoning or fill in any gaps on the UK side, if anyone needs it.

I would hope that Edgar James Pring is listed on the Walsall war memorial, but I don't seem to be able to check that online. There is a lot of detail about its construction, but no list of names. In any event, as a distant relative, I am proud to hear that he is remembered at Boldmere.

Derek
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Derek, I've really appreciated all the work you have put in to this and will definitely try to get to the bottom of it. Thanks again.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Here's some of my research into Sarah Ann Pring ...
FreeBMD has death for Sarah Ann Pring in 1933 age 79, equivalent to a birth year around 1854
1911 census has one Sarah Ann Pring, age 56, visiting Henry and Anna Bella Basford, in Market Drayton.
Sarah Ann has a birthplace of Balterley in Staffordshire. Incorrectly indexed as Batterley.
Anna Bella was also born in Balterley and is 52. It turns out that they are sisters.
Working backwards for Anna Bella and Sara Ann, we find them in the 1861 census as Sarah Ann Dean and Anna Bella Dean in Balterley. They are with their unmarried mother Mary Ann Dean and brother John.
By 1881 Mary Anne has married William Simpson and they are living in Shavington. Sarah Ann has taken the Simpson name. Anna Bella has married Henry Basford and they are living in Wistanton.
On the 1881 census, Sarah Ann has a sister Betsy. This sister marries William Hill.
By 1911, William Hill has died and Betsy is living in Nantwich with children Mabel and William, but also a niece, Maud Pring !!!
So Maud, must be the daughter of a sister of Betsy and the only Pring one we know is Sarah Ann Pring.
And Maud is 17, single, and born in Newark, New Jersey.
The 1900 US census, shows John Pring, Sarah Ann and Maud, living in New Jersey. John immigrated in 1888, Sarah Ann immigrated in 1882, they had been married for 8 years, and had one surviving child.
There is a possible New Jersey marriage for John and Sarah Ann, and there are several travel records for journeys to and from New York. (Nothing early enough for their original emigrations).

So, my first thought that P Pring was John and Sarahs son is wrong - they only had one child in 1900 (Maud). I suppose they could have had another child who might have been just old enough to serve in WW1, but Sarah was 56 in 1900 and John was 52 and there is no record of another Pring birth in New Jersey.

But, P Pring could have been Johns son by a previous marriage. More intriguingly, was P Pring an American serviceman which would explain his absence from the British records. I believe that names for the war memorials could be put forward by any local family wishing to commemorate a relative even though that relative had little or no connection with the locality. I did find a 1914-1918 US Draft record for a Robert Pring but could not find out anything more about him. I am aware of spelling mistakes on war memorials, so it is a possibility.

On the 1900 census, John gives his birth details as Dec 1848, England and occupation as Carpenter. There are a few possible John Prings born around that time, but my favourite candidate is the one born in Chipstable. His father is a carpenter and I can't find that John on any census later than 1881. That John also spent some time in Taunton gaol for theft of four chickens in the 1880s which might have been a good reason to emigrate.

Maud Pring stayed in England and married Arthur Barnes Wheaver in 1934, the year after her mother Sarah Ann died. Maud and Arthur had one child who died aged 2. It was Arthurs seecond marriage. There are living descendants from his first marriage, one of which is Mark Wheaver who has his family tree posted on Genes Reunited and genealogy.com. He may able to supply more details of the Pring family.

Derek Paul
Hi Derek
I am late to this discussion, but have some things to add to your information above.
Among the many crossings made by Sarah Ann and Maud(e) is on the Lucania in 1909. Their residence is given as Drayton, England. The relative in England for Maud (implicitly in England?) is her father J. Pring (misspelled as Preng). The relative in America is Fred Pring, described as 'Stepson'.
I believe this is Fred Pring, accountant, who lived in East Orange, and was the son of John Pring, carpenter, and the 'stepson' of Sarah Ann. Fred's passport application in 1924 states that he was born at 12 Stanley Terrace Westbury (now a suburb of Bristol) on 26th May 1872, father John Pring. The 1881 census, which you have seen, has John, born Chipstable, and his family, including Fred. Fred's mother was Mary Ann, who seems to have died in 1889. I did think a son of Fred might be the P Pring, but his son was Kenneth, who did register for the draft, but was alive after the war.
I hope this adds a little something. My focus has been on finding a link between the Boldmere Prings and known Prings who died (clearly Edgar is the prime candidate). I have another angle whch I will put in a much later post. Best wishes Rob
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
From another angle completely, trying to find out who John and Sarah Ann Pring were, who lived in Boldmere (or at least Sarah Ann did). Edgar Pring's father James and mother Elizabeth (Paul) lived in Walsall, and in 1881 they have a visitor, John Pring, a currier's assistant from Somerset. He is the son of James's brother Samuel and Jemima, and thus cousin to the Pring children. When Edgar was born, John would be his cousin. John stayed in Walsall, and in 1885 married Polly Bray in Walsall. They had a son John, born 17 Dec 1886 at 19 Pool St Walsall. That's the story so far, may need to construct a tree for the other Prings in the previous post.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
In #10 I referred to an Edgar James Pring who had served as Edgar Paul - further digging shows his elder brother Charles Edward also served under the surname Paul. I know it was their mother's maiden name but don't see why they changed to that name. I still have no connection to Boldmere.
 
Last edited:

Lady Penelope

master brummie
To me it seems as though the more we find out about the Prings, the less I seem to know. I'm hoping to read the whole thread through again and put it down on paper.
 
Last edited:

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Indeed, no firm connection yet. A couple more John Prings in the mix. Is there anything else about Sarah Ann Pring other than the dates and Frederick Road? Any other family? Lived in Boldmere long? Number in Frederick Road?

I was proceeding on the basis that Edgar James Pring served under the name Edward Charles Paul, the name being that of his deceased brother and his mother's maiden name.

I really want to get to the bottom of this too.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I think there are entries for the 2 brothers. Edgar James Paul AND Charles Edward Paul. Both are on CWGC site. There are 2 entries but they are for the same person!!!
 
Last edited:

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
In #10 I referred to an Edgar James Pring who had served as Edgar Paul - further digging shows his elder brother Charles Edward also served under the surname Paul. I know it was their mother's maiden name but don't see why they changed to that name. I still have no connection to Boldmere.

maybe their father was not who they thought he was...or maybe their parents split up and not best pleased with dad disowned his surname...it happens...i cant check at the min but someone could maybe have look to see how long their parents were living together and were they defininatley married??..this is just me mulling things over

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
On 1911 census the father is not listed and Mother (Elizabeth) is down as a widow. Next to her name but crossed out it has 40 (years married) 10 children born - 5 alive and 5 dead. 1901 census includes Father, James, and gives his place of birth as Broadway Somerset. James is listed with Elizabeth on 1871, 1881 and 1901 census. I can't find any of them on 1891 at the moment. Marriage of Elizabeth Ann Paul in Taunton, Somerset, 1870 Oct quarter James Pring listed.
James died 1910 buried Ryecroft cemetery Walsall.
 
Last edited:

pjmburns

master brummie
Found them in 1891 - listed as Ring!! Same street all way through Hatherton St Walsall but different numbers.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I don't have a newspaper sub at the moment but Edgar James is a butcher on 1911 census and there are several newspaper accounts I can see some of for Jan and Feb 1914 with a butcher called Edgar James Pring charged with embezzlement. Maybe he wanted to get away from his criminal record.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Janice,

A search of the newspapers doesn't bring up anything criminal at all as Edward J Pring, and Edward James Pring doesn't turn up anything at all. No filters used at all.

Maurice
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Janice,

He was sent to prison for a month on that charge, but he also had previous convictions. It will take me a little time to put all this together, but it also struck me how common was the name Edgar James Pring. A man of the same name in Coventry was being pursued by a woman named PARSONS claiming that he was the father of her child in 1915, but he said that his occupation was a coal merchant's clerk and lived in Coventry. It's odd that the butcher from whom he stole the money also lived in Coventry Road! I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Maurice
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Thanks Maurice - the pity is that with no service records we don't know when he enlisted just when he died. I think it must be the right person - as he is down as a butcher in 1911. The strange thing is he is married but listed with his Mom while his wife and baby daughter are listed with her parents in Stratford as visitors. On the death record his wife is given as living in Rugby.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Continuing on from those, I could not find any previous convictions in the British Library Newspaper Archives under Edgar James Pring. This was obviously an old allegation and I have looked back without filters regarding date. Nothing listed on FindMyPast Court & Prison listings either. Obviously the guy has a bit of a chequered (or should that be checkered?) history.

Maurice
 

ladylinda

master brummie
With reference to Jessica Alice Pring, it appears she became a midwife in 1920 and continued to live at 132 Murray Rd Rugby until at least 1935, according to The Midwife Rolls
1540133995031.png
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Thanks Maurice - think it might be our man.

I looked up the burial of his Mother who died in 1937 and is listed as being buried at Ryecroft Cemetery where his Father was buried in 1910 and then had a surprise as it seems to indicate that is where Edgar is buried.
 

Attachments

Top