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WW1 Fallen & Boldmere, St Michael's Church

pjmburns

master brummie
I have had a look on the 1911 census and 132 Murray Road, Rugby was the address of a Mr Hawkins - a county court bailiff so unless Jessica was a servant (and he did have one girl servant in 1911) I am not sure what Jessica was doing there. He had a daughter and several boarders as well.
I have hit a wall with my family (Irish ancestry!) so am glad of the distraction for a bit.

Janice
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Haven't managed to go to the Library today so intend to look at my 'brick walls'.

I researched my husband's Irish ancestry for him and we decided to go to East Galway where the Jennings (his family name) seem to have originated. I found the history and myths surrounding names and places absolutely fascinating. They came from Ballymacward near Ballinasloe where the big horse fair takes place in October. It was my first taste of tracing Catholic records and we actually met a lady in her 90's who was a Jennings by birth. The connection was about 4 generations back. We also visited some of the record centres which are springing up and found them very helpful. I think they cater mainly to the visitors from the States.

It also taught me not to discount records which don't appear to fit. The key to our research proved to be a soldier in the Royal Worcester Regiment who I'd decided couldn't be anything to do with our research. He was my husband's great grandfather. That'll teach me!

Hope you have a breakthrough and I'll post anything I manage to find about the Prings.

Penny
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
I have spent some time looking at the Pring situation. I think you are right Janice, that the marriage probably took place at the Register Office, I wonder whether the records are available at Central Library? I don’t want to send for a certificate.

I looked at one of the witnesses to EJP’s marriage – Reuben Hand – a nice unusual name. He had joined the Worcesters in 1909. Had Edgar? Reuben was married in the same Qtr as Edgar at the RO in Aston so it looks very likely that the marriage was in the same place.

I had a light bulb moment last night after spending some time looking at the information that I had – Edgar James Pring served as Paul E C not Paul Pring. Paul was his alias. I wonder if he used his brother’s birth certificate and changed his surname – he probably did it to avoid ribbing from fellow soldiers (apologies to any Prings reading this). Was he running away? Did he not want his parent’s to know?

Aside from all this it basically means that he is not the P Pring I’m looking for. I shall still try to find out a little more about him as I’ve got quite attached.

Someone has suggested that there is a Percy Pring in Frederick Road, Sutton Coldfield so I will follow this up. He hasn’t come to light so far.

We’ve had a lot of help and thank you everyone for your support.

In addition to P Pring we’re still missing W Garner and W E Harman. But we’re getting there!
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Missed a bit! Sorry.

Forgot to say that Edgar served as Edward Charles Paul. His brother was Edward Charles Pring, born 1882, died 1907.
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
No problem Janice - we all thought the same. Really pleased you did as it's actually taught us a lot. It made us look into alias's and find out what they were all about which we wouldn't have done otherwise. I hadn't come across one before. Also the fact that he had enlisted probably in his brother's name. Plus the fact that I would never have thought of looking for a Register Office marriage! So all in all a real learning curve. Thank you.
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Hi Everyone,

I've had a message from a Visitor - Mdel - and I can't figure out how to send a reply. I've actually missed this section completely and didn't even see the message. It's concerning Reginald De Lattre and I want to send her some information. Thanks.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Hi Everyone,

I've had a message from a Visitor - Mdel - and I can't figure out how to send a reply. I've actually missed this section completely and didn't even see the message. It's concerning Reginald De Lattre and I want to send her some information. Thanks.
hi lady p....mdel has not made any posts on open forum so did you receive a private message from her ?? if so just reply as you and i have been doing via the private message system..

lyn
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Sorry - lightbulb not come on yet - I have posted my response under Visitor Messages, is that different to an instant message? This is where her message appeared. It doesn't seem to be addressed to anyone, sort of just floating there if you know what I mean. When I respond on an instant message it has contact details on. Mdel has asked about Reginald De Lattre a soldier who died in WW1 as she is related to him and I don't want to miss the opportunity to contact her.
 

ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
LadyP,

If you are still struggling, probably the best thing is to email this member direct. It doesn't look as though he/she has visited the Forum since August and therefore may not pick up the fact that you have responded. To do this, click on his/her name, select Profile and there will be an email option on the left hand side of the window.

Let me know if this doesn't work - never certain what special access I have as a Mod!

Chris
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi lady p....i agree with chris...i see that by looking at your visitors messages that you have sent a message to mdel...could i just alert you to the fact that if members send visitors messages back and forth to each other that they are not private as all other members on the forum can see what you are saying to each other...where as if you communicate like we did this morning via the private message system they are just that...private between only the sender and the recipent no other members will have access to reading them...hope this helps

lyn
 
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MaggieF

New Member
Where did you find details of Cyril Jackson? Frederick and Emma are my great-grandparents, but I have only found a Forces record for Sidney Jackson, but he would have only have been 12 at the time! Wonder if my Sidney record should have been Cyril?
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Hi MaggieF

Cyril's middle name was Sidney but he had a brother Sidney too. This record was researched by Yvonne who was doing the whole of the Sutton Memorial. This memorial includes all St Michael's too. Cyril was 16 and Sidney 7 on the 1911 census. So, if I've got this right, Cyril was actually your great-uncle. If you send me a private message with your e-mail I will send you all the details I have.
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
An update to my earlier posts. My husband did a presentation in church on the 5th Nov introducing the young men of our parish who died in WW1. He didn't dwell on the war but on their lives and their occupations, where they lived and when they joined up. He talked about sport and local football teams (Boldmere St Michael's FC was actually started by the church). It had taken him a year to finish (with help from Trish and Yvonne in Sutton). We are still unsure about 4 of the men but will keep looking for them. It made it much more personal to hear their Christian names read out in church rather than just their initials. Thanks to everyone for their input.
 

DerekP

New Member
Missed a bit! Sorry.

Forgot to say that Edgar served as Edward Charles Paul. His brother was Edward Charles Pring, born 1882, died 1907.
A previous post mentions that Edgar was the son of Mrs E Pring. This is Elizabeth Ann Pring and her maiden name was Paul.
Other posts refer to Edgars wife Jessica and daughter Irene. They married Dec Qtr 1910 - Jessica A[lice] Harris and Edgar J[ames] Pring in Aston.
The birth of Irene was registered Mar Qtr 1911 in Stratford but on the 1911 census her age is stated as 3 months and having been born in Henley in Arden. From these dates and locations, it looks as if Edgar got Jessica pregnant early in 1910. They married late in 1910, probably just before Irene was born. Jessica went back to her parents in Henley in Arden to have the baby and she stayed for some time.
Edgar was with his mother at the time of the 1911 census in Walsall. His occupation is Butcher which is the same occupation as Jessica's father Frederick. Perhaps Edgar worked for Frederick at some time.
Edgars' reasons for enlisting under the name Edward Charles Paul - his dead brothers forenames and his mothers maiden name - might be explained by a desire to 'disappear', if his marriage hadn't worked out. However, his father had already passed away at the time which provides another reason for using the name Paul. Another post says that the next of kin address is 132 Murray Road, Rugby. Elizabeth died Dec Qtr 1937 in Walsall and I have found no family connection to Rugby. If that is still the address of Thomas Hawkins, a County Court Bailliff, in 1918 then you wonder whether a child maintenance or debt recovery situation is in play.

None of this helps with P Pring - there are no P Prings in this family, so the attention moves to John and Sarah Ann Pring who we know actually lived in Boldmere. War Memorials were erected some years after the armistice and names were often suggested by local families wanting to commemorate a family member who actually had little or no connection with the location. So, the most likely thought is that John and Sarah nominated a relative. But, more on these two in a separate post ...

Hope this is of interest
Derek Paul
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Thank you for your post DerekP, I haven't looked at these records for some time so it will take a while to get my head round your information. Look forward to more posts. It's still a mystery.
 

DerekP

New Member
Thank you for that Janice. P Pring is one of the ones that is causing me the most trouble. I have looked at all the P Prings born in England that I could find and also searched our church records for anyone of that name. I found a Sarah Ann Pring (d.1933) buried in the churchyard and unearthed her gravestone last week to find that her husband was John. I know her address in 1933 which was in the parish but can't find her anywhere else so far.

Your Paul definitely sounds promising so I'll have a look for Edgar James and see what I can find. Thanks again.

Here's some of my research into Sarah Ann Pring ...
FreeBMD has death for Sarah Ann Pring in 1933 age 79, equivalent to a birth year around 1854
1911 census has one Sarah Ann Pring, age 56, visiting Henry and Anna Bella Basford, in Market Drayton.
Sarah Ann has a birthplace of Balterley in Staffordshire. Incorrectly indexed as Batterley.
Anna Bella was also born in Balterley and is 52. It turns out that they are sisters.
Working backwards for Anna Bella and Sara Ann, we find them in the 1861 census as Sarah Ann Dean and Anna Bella Dean in Balterley. They are with their unmarried mother Mary Ann Dean and brother John.
By 1881 Mary Anne has married William Simpson and they are living in Shavington. Sarah Ann has taken the Simpson name. Anna Bella has married Henry Basford and they are living in Wistanton.
On the 1881 census, Sarah Ann has a sister Betsy. This sister marries William Hill.
By 1911, William Hill has died and Betsy is living in Nantwich with children Mabel and William, but also a niece, Maud Pring !!!
So Maud, must be the daughter of a sister of Betsy and the only Pring one we know is Sarah Ann Pring.
And Maud is 17, single, and born in Newark, New Jersey.
The 1900 US census, shows John Pring, Sarah Ann and Maud, living in New Jersey. John immigrated in 1888, Sarah Ann immigrated in 1882, they had been married for 8 years, and had one surviving child.
There is a possible New Jersey marriage for John and Sarah Ann, and there are several travel records for journeys to and from New York. (Nothing early enough for their original emigrations).

So, my first thought that P Pring was John and Sarahs son is wrong - they only had one child in 1900 (Maud). I suppose they could have had another child who might have been just old enough to serve in WW1, but Sarah was 56 in 1900 and John was 52 and there is no record of another Pring birth in New Jersey.

But, P Pring could have been Johns son by a previous marriage. More intriguingly, was P Pring an American serviceman which would explain his absence from the British records. I believe that names for the war memorials could be put forward by any local family wishing to commemorate a relative even though that relative had little or no connection with the locality. I did find a 1914-1918 US Draft record for a Robert Pring but could not find out anything more about him. I am aware of spelling mistakes on war memorials, so it is a possibility.

On the 1900 census, John gives his birth details as Dec 1848, England and occupation as Carpenter. There are a few possible John Prings born around that time, but my favourite candidate is the one born in Chipstable. His father is a carpenter and I can't find that John on any census later than 1881. That John also spent some time in Taunton gaol for theft of four chickens in the 1880s which might have been a good reason to emigrate.

Maud Pring stayed in England and married Arthur Barnes Wheaver in 1934, the year after her mother Sarah Ann died. Maud and Arthur had one child who died aged 2. It was Arthurs seecond marriage. There are living descendants from his first marriage, one of which is Mark Wheaver who has his family tree posted on Genes Reunited and genealogy.com. He may able to supply more details of the Pring family.

Derek Paul
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Wow Derek! As they say. What a lot to digest. What is clear is that 'my' P Pring is not your Edgar James Pring. My first thought was to put the church record straight but then I thought EJP had died in the war so I'll leave him for the time being. His name has been read out for the last two years in Boldmere. Your theory seems feasible but I shall have sort my thoughts out a little more and then decide how to proceed. Really interesting as I do like a good mystery. Thank you for all the trouble you have taken it is much appreciated.
 
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