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Winson Green / All Saints Asylum

A

anorak147

Brummie babby
I wonder if anyone can help me. I found this forum whilst searching for information about All Saints Asylum. My Great Aunt went to the asylum in c1932 and died there in 1971. It has taken me a while to find her death certificate as she was registered with the wrong middle name, an approximate yob and was the "widow of ___ Smith, occupation unknown". The only factually correct info was her maiden name. This seems to reflect the postings of others. I no longer live near Birmingham but am having a repeated search of the archives carried out with her "new" name. My question is, does anyone know what would have happened to her when she died? No one in the family seems to have been to the funeral. Was there a common crematorium used by the asylum for all deaths there?

Any advice gratefully received.
 
hi annorack
just been reading your plight in search of the missing body of your relative
from the hospital ;
i would imagine the first place to check would be the archives at the central libary
on the six floor at birmingham. then i would also write to the coroners office birmingham
as she died in the all saints hospital they would have had to be informed
and they would have knowledge for the cause of death and as to where they burried her
it is possible that she was burried with in the grounds of the asylam ;
because this hospital was many , many years ago was part of the winson green prison
and it was used for the secure units of mentally ill patients as well as orinary folk of mental problems
i have over many years visted inside this all saints hospital and around the grounds
and actualy seen the inside some of these wards and the patients living
Oh. please do not think for one moment i have been a patient there myself . because i have not
and if my memory serves me correctly way back then under circumstances these poor souls with no-one or family whom was sent there was when they died they was burried with in the grounds
which beleive me was a very vast area of the complex
and also in the days gone bye any body whom was hung in the prison section was also burried with these walls and never removed from the grounds
they had to be burried with the prison complex
which i have said the aslam and the birmingham prison as it was known then would have been
burried there. beleive me there was alot of common graves with in that complex
i am afraid thats what i can only suggest . contact the records of the coroner office
best of luck with your research ;; astonian ;;;;
 
Astonian, Louisa,

Thanks to you both for your replies. I had a search carried out via the on-line facility (thanks Louisa) and have found her in Handsworth Cemetery under her "incorrect" name.

Amazingly, she is buried with her husband so provision of sorts must have been in place after all which is a happy ending as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks again.
 
I am so pleased this story had a happy ending of sorts and she was reunited with her husband.
 
Does any one know how I can contact the Hospital as my Gt Aunt was admitted there sometime around 1940 and died there in 1958 I have her death cert. As I have a neurological condition which is hereditary I am part of a study at one of our teaching hospitals and it would be advantageous to know why she was in there. She was never spoken about except that my other Gt Aunt visted her every Saturday without fail. There is no one left to answer the questions the Drs have put to me. I know that people were put in these places for things which today are treatable, I would just like to know why. Living in NZ makes it quite difficult. Thanks for your help.

Dyan
 
Dyan
Sorry to hear of your medical condition. The best place to start may be to e-mail the Birmingham Archives service and explain your circumstances. They have the records for All Saints Hospital and also have a research service. They are very helpful and will give you some advice about how to access your aunts medical records.

The Archive service have to ask for permission from the health authorities before they can access the records for the public. So it may also help you to obtain the records more readily if you ask the medical doctors who are helping you and are involved in the Genetic research programme to also either write a confidential letter to officially ask for records or a brief enquiry e-mail to the archives service and they may be able to offer more advice about the best path to take to help you.

Archives and Heritage Service
Central Library
Chamberlain Square
Birmingham
B3 3HQ
Tel: 0121 303 4549 or 0121 303 4220
Fax: 0121 233 4458
Email: [email protected]

You could also look at this website link which will tell you about which records the Birmingham archives hold and the Local health Aurthority administering them in certain years. If you Google the health authority name you may come up with an address to write to about access to medical information.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=206&page=2

Also look at posting no 3 on this thread for sources of more info.

Good Luck
Louisa
 
Dyan
Just a bit more info
This is the link to the West Midlands Genetic Service and as this is based in Birmingham they may be able to professionally help your doctors to obtain the All Saints Records that you need or they may be able to offer more advice to help you. I notice that they have a Doctors professional consultation phone line so your doctors may be able to speak to someone there to help.

https://www.bwhct.nhs.uk/genetics-index.htm

The Genetic hospital address is:
Birmingham Women's NHS Foundation Trust
Metchley Park Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham B15 2TG
Telephone: 44 (0)121 472 1377

Hope this helps you

Louisa
 
Dyan I really wish you luck on this ..but a few months ago I applied for my Moms records..she died in 1988..My doctors were really helpfull but when we applied I was told that after 20 yrs all medical records of a deceased patient are destroyed..I hope you do get some results with your search
 
My great grandfather died in all saints. I didnt have any info for him other than his name and the year he died. I applied to Bham register office and they found his death cert. He is in a paupers grave at Lodge Hill, found the grave and suprisingly enough only a 'green' away from where my dad, his son, is buried. I chased up the records for All Saints, and unfortunately some have been destroyed. There were other records for All Saints in the archives, but they were trying to preserve them, in the hope that the wet books would dry out and save the information they held. They were ever so helpful and as I recall they sent a form to fill in for me to request to view the files. When they werent available they emailed me to explain why. I think there is a list on National Archives which tells you which ones they hold.
Good luck with your search, I hope you find what your looking for.
Regards
Bernie
 
My Welsh goddess trained first at Dudley Road in general nursing then moved into Mental health nursing at All Saint's. In the 1980's they had a fantastic nursery for the staff's children and the Social club was pretty good for a late drink.

Back on track, there is no obligation to keep all medical records after a while, 20 years after the death I think although some may remain in an archive so good luck with your enquiries.

When the wife first started there she told me of elderly women who had been there for sixty years or so through stupid things like refusing an arranged marriage or having a child out of wedlock and were committed by family to save embassisment, the poor souls were so institutionalised that it was best they recieved some TLC and finished their days there as there was really nowhere for them to go; how very sad. Thankfully Mental health nursing has improved dramatically these last couple of decades. My wife is a Senior Nurse here in Wales and still loves the job.
 
I went along Lodge Road on the 101 bus (try it...fascinating journey through Hockley, Winson Green and Handsworth) on my way to Handsworth Cemetery.
All Saints is now a massive housing estate, though the original asylum building is still there, that seems to be used as part of the prison now.
 
HI CHARLIE
That bus route used to be the 95 bus route coming from the city small brook ring way and around the city and the terminus used to be at he top of dudley rd in fact it was northbrook street clocking for the bus drivers and down winson green and lodge rd my nan lived next to the eagle pub and the prison officers houses anfd the guvenors house that was the other side of the eagle seperate from the warders houses and along the front of the prison walls on winson green rd used to be there little houses as well right up to the old gate house before they moved the gate house to now
and yes they reopenened and moderised some of the prison cells into the old building as there was already cells there from years ago when it was before abnd after the hospital its orinional prison was all saints then it changed to the hospital for the sick and mentaly ill and for secure hospital
just like broad moor was then they started to send them to broad moor mental hospital which its self became a prison for serious hardened crims
and now that still houses cons of the country cator b grade people just like all saints it as been returned to the private sector of prisons
not run by HMP ; as it was in them days good hard warders not the sloppy type of today
its a soft prison now just like broad moor is i knew of one person whom was doing life in broad moor way back in the sixtyies
he was a danger to the public and sent to broad moor he lived in around brookfields school in those days
the entrance to all saints look good i thought what do you think done away with there little arch gate and drive its all openened up
have a good day charlie ; best wishes mate alan ;; astonian
 
My mate (Prison Officer) spends most his time nowadays interviewing the lags when they come and leave, and is based more in the office than on the wings - he is based in the old asylum buildings - lovely place, great view out!
 
That building looks fascinating, I'd love to get inside and take a look - not by getting put away though!!!
 
richardinwales said:
My Welsh goddess trained first at Dudley Road in general nursing then moved into Mental health nursing at All Saint's. In the 1980's they had a fantastic nursery for the staff's children and the Social club was pretty good for a late drink.

Back on track, there is no obligation to keep all medical records after a while, 20 years after the death I think although some may remain in an archive so good luck with your enquiries.

When the wife first started there she told me of elderly women who had been there for sixty years or so through stupid things like refusing an arranged marriage or having a child out of wedlock and were committed by family to save embassisment, the poor souls were so institutionalised that it was best they recieved some TLC and finished their days there as there was really nowhere for them to go; how very sad. Thankfully Mental health nursing has improved dramatically these last couple of decades. My wife is a Senior Nurse here in Wales and still loves the job.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this Richard. Your comments about the elderly women having been locked away from some fear of embarrassment etc reflects my understanding of the time. It's good to know they got their TLC though!

Karen
 
Here is a shop on the Dudley Rd during WW2. Look what they are selling.
Roy Rogers would be turning in his grave.





Image11_Dudley_Rd_Winson_Green.jpg



Regards Stars
 
I think this shop was owned by a family called Demulders. I'm not sure how to spell it. I'm told it tasted alright though!!
rosie.
 
please can someone confirm why did they call it the mad house, did people go mad whilst staying there
 
its a figure of speech for people with mental health issues and many years ago it was excactly like that with secure wards and padded cells
it was dark and dingy and grey with lowlighting and some people whom was put in there by there familys because they couldnot look after them
i know of several people whom was put in there and under the mental health and on visting this place it was a scary moments and intidmidateing
to walk around and i have been to some wards where there is about twent people to a ward and you ring a bell to get in and you can see patience fully clothes with hat and scarfs on in the mids of summer jumping up and down on the beds shouting and screaming there heads off
and in a lot of cases they would have mental health treant ment where they reciev electric shock treatment to the head they was strapped down and this was done to them to try and make them better but it only slows them down and damage there brain cells and some later become violent
even to day they carry out this treantment there is a place up in harborne just up from the school for the blind [ court oak rd harborne ]
ome people call it the yampie house or the nut hutch ; of lodg rd ; but now i beleive the winson green as reclaimed it back
possibley for the over crowding and for the hospital wings as the asylum was orininglethe birmingham prison before the actul winson green prison as we know it today and i beleive they have a women s section for detaining woman prisoners over night or for a day a two instead of travelling to london daily at holloway prison every day from the birmingham courts ; where upon they would normaly in years gone bye would have stayed at steel house lane
but now if they are brought in and arested at nghts they keep them them below the courts and up before the judge next morning ; but if remanded for two or three days down the green they would go ; instead of travelling to the holloway prison ;
 
I rang mum and told her that's what you called the mad house and she never had a clue what went on she said Jesus lord help those who suffered in what was bleak dark days
 
Had a relation live in Lodge Rd for a short time in 1969/70 . When we occasionally visited them we have seen people wondering around the Street in their pyjamas. So very sad .But at the time i was a bit scared to say the least.
 
Hi tops
my grand mother lived across the rd facing the hospital and she would experience this of of behaviour her self
people walking in on her front door she was petrifyed most days my aunt maud was the church caretaker dwn the lodge rd just down the rd from her maud being my nans daughter and dads sister but he died in1959
he had a brother named joe whom was getting on abit in life and he was not a full shilling if you get my drift
when nan died maud put in in the care of those people across the rd at the hospital as she could not cope with him
but he was there for a little while she and myself would go and se him ;
but eventually they moved him to a care home in the black country but afer a month some think wrong
and they alledgeable said he fell down the stairs and he died emediatlely;
but prior to that i used to go and see one or two people in there ; down under neath the ground level where all the serious
mental health issues was in these locked in wards of the people i have mentioned it was a frighnen experience at first
to see and hear them ; they had a very large under ground coffee room for theless fortune ones
whom can roam around abit freely on there own but still supevised
i was told not to get my fags out as it could me a problem ; despite what i was told i did infact did so
i was swamped bt about fifty of these patients right around me with there hands out asking for a fag ; i ended up with none-none for myself so in the future times i had a fag before going down there ; it was abit worrying at first but you get used to them
and then it does not become a problem ; they are only humanwith no familys whom for some reason or another have left them
or deserted them for there own personal reasons ; this wopul be around the period you are talking about ;; astonian
 
Re-posting missing photo's of Winson Green





Winson Green Road

Winson2520Green2C2520Winson2520Green2520Rd2520Nr2520Heath2520St2520.jpg








Dudley_Road2C_Winson_Green2C_5th_January_1961.jpg




Another vew of Winson green road

58933951_goal_post_cafe2C_Winson_Green_Rd.jpg




Winson Green Road

58933143_winson_green_road2C_Winson_Green.jpg




Canal bridge off Lodge rd Winson Green 1

34807544_canal_off_Lodge_Rd2C_Winson_Green_redo.jpg





Canal bridge off Lodge rd Winson Green 2

34807542_canal_bridge_off_Lodge_Rd_2_Winson_Green_redo.jpg




Benson Road Winson Green




Regards Stars
 
Hi
Re-posting missing photo's.



Dudley Rd at the Junction of Icknield Port Rd

Dudley_Road_at_the_corner_of_Icknield_Port_Road.jpg






Dudley Rd by the Hospital.


DD2520Leyland__Dudley_road__by_Hospital.jpg







Dudley Rd by the junction of Icknield Port Rd 1961


185_Dudley_Road2C_1961.jpg




Stars
 
Here are a couple more to look at.





The Weatsheaf pup again it is at the junction with Icknield port Rd 1958.


The_Wheatsheaf2C_Dudley_Road2C_1958.jpg







Looking down Icknield Port Rd towards the Dudley Rd 1955.


Icknield_Port_Road_at_the_corner_with_Dudley_Road2C_1955.jpg




Regards Stars
 
HI STARS
GREAT PICTURES AND GREAT MEMORIES FOR ME OF MY OLD NECK OF THE WOODS AND CERTAILY THE PUB
AND ALSO TO SAY THAT THE PUB [ NAMELY THE WHEATSHEAF WAS ALWAYS A BUSY PUB I AND YOU COULD FIND US IN THRE MOST NIGHTS BEFORE OUR PUB
CRAWL STARTING THERE BACK DOWN TO EVERY PUB ON THE DUDLEY RD TO SUMMER HILL AND BACK THE OTHER SIDE RIGT UP TO THE SEVEN STARS
UP AT SMETHWICK AND IN THE SIXTYIES THE GAFFER WHOM RAN THE bIRMINGAM ARMS PUB ON DUDLEY RD MOVED UP TO THE WHEATSHEAF TO RUN IT HE WAS A VER GOOD GAFFER HE WOULD NEVER ANY NONSENCE TO CARRY ON OR YOU WAS OUT THE DOOR SHARPISH
AND SECONDLY THE VIEW WITH THE PETROL PUMPS YOU CAN SEE AN ENTRY JUST BEFORE THEM MY TWO OLD FRIENDS THE MYATTS FAMILY
LIVED UP THERE THEY WAS TWINNS THEY FORMED A BAND THEY WAS GOOD
MERRY CHRISTMAS STARS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ;; ASTONIAN
 
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