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Sutton Park History

  • Thread starter Thread starter O.C.
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Thanks everyone. I think this one will remain a mystery. The 'Dog in the Hole' which once stood at lower Parade was some way away from Wyndley Lane.

The Secretary of the History Group has spent some time on this this afternoon but has come to the conclusion that it is referring to Wyndley Lane and may have been referred to by locals as such. People had a habit of attaching nicknames to places didn't they?
 
Lady Penelope said:
Thanks everyone. I think this one will remain a mystery. The 'Dog in the Hole' which once stood at lower Parade was some way away from Wyndley Lane.

The Secretary of the History Group has spent some time on this this afternoon but has come to the conclusion that it is referring to Wyndley Lane and may have been referred to by locals as such. People had a habit of attaching nicknames to places didn't they?
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Lady P, this then begs the question as to whether the Old Dog Inn became the Dog in the Hole around 1896 ?

(Further info…The Old Dog, when it changed hands in 1889, was said to be an old-established Inn)
 
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Pedro, I'm pretty sure they are one in the same but when the pub changed names I really don't know at this stage. I will have a good look through all my records and see what I can find. Thanks for your input.
 
With ref. to pictures of Bracebridge Cottage in post #1456. Just came across someone living at Bracebridge Pool Cottage in the 1840s, would it be the same cottage?
 
Some recent posts have been nothing to do with Birmingham history and have been removed. Please in the Birmingham history sections of the forum keep to history. And in the none history sections keep off politics, which are likely to cause disagreements and arguments. Let the only arguments be about history.
 
@Morturn Thanks for responding. When I was doing my family tree, I sadly discovered that my Grandad's sister was found dead at Powells Pond, Sutton Park and there was a lot of mystery surrounding this as she used to enjoy going there as a child. Reading between the lines from the information I have found out, I believe she may have had what is now known as Post Natal Depression and I did discover a newspaper article about her death although they got her mothers name wrong as her mother was Vera not Mavis.
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The Birmingham and Warwickshire Archaeological Society in 1906 were describing ancient roads from Gibbet Hill…

“Another picked up branches from Salford and B‘romford and then struck straight as
an arrow over this site to cross the Jockey Lane by the corner shop, and plunge into
Powell’s pool below Booth’s farm. It may be seen in dry summers—a great dam of
water pebbles extending from bank to bank near the reed bed, which is indeed the
long ago silted up basin of a pool which this great highway once upbore.”
 
Crystal Palace and the Fair. Welcome to the Pleasure Dome.

Roughly where the Leisure Centre stands today over a 150 years ago there was a magnificent entertainment called The Royal Promenade Gardens. It covered 10 acres and had a fernery, large rhododendron area, Rose beds, an Italian garden, lawns, ornamental plantations, a bowling green, cricket, archery and croquet areas. It also had an ornamental lake and a conservatory. The conservatory was modelled on the Crystal Palace built for the Great Exhibition of1851 and called after it. There was a hotel next to it with shelter for 1500 people and stabling for 50 horses, 30 acres of meadow. Facilities for boating fishing, cycling and children’s swings completed the offerings. It was also noted there were shady avenues and arbours for “spooning”.

All of this was the creation of a market gardener called Job Cole who converted his land there to create it. He was an experienced horticulturist and business man having previously owned market gardens in the Birmingham area.
It is unclear how he would finance such a massive undertaking but it was one of the results of the expansion of the railways coupled with very cheap fares. Sutton was to be blessed with three stations, two lines and a third planned. Speculation in all fields followed the railway and various important figures in the Sutton area saw profits to be made so he would have had access to such monies. Sutton was already very well regarded for its air and pleasant climate. Excursions from Birmingham were popular and frequent. The coming of the railway was to raise this to a completely different level

110,000 visitors came each year with railway excursion ticket sales of 77,500. Everybody seemed to be making money and Sutton saw a housing and development boom. Cole went public but initial euphoria died and the site did not turn out to be profitable in the long term. It must be speculation without access to the companies books but it seems likely that with an Rail Excursion costing only a shilling including admittance to the Gardens was a bargain for the visitor and the Railway Company but not for Mr Cole. The entry price to visitors arriving in other ways was also one shilling. Profit therefore relied on sales inside. Cole died in 1893 leaving £20.5s. A Mr Earle became the owner but as a businessman he was a good drunk, spending most of his time in The Museum Public House. He was in court for non payment of rates but later, when he got so drunk he fired a shotgun towards the hotel guests and a police officer, business seemed inextricably to decline. There was also the minor matter of a floor collapse which pitched dancers into the cellar to be glossed over.

A cabal of “The Captain”, “The Colonel” and “the Major” financed by other local figures, then took it on and organised an Oriental Art and Industrial Exhibition to relaunch the venue. The crowds stayed away in their thousands and it was a financial disaster. People had loaned items for display some of which were eventually returned but others were sold at auction which, judging from the prices realised, was fixed from start to finish. The creditors moved in and another period of decline set in.
The buildings however were sacrosanct. As none of these owners in fact owned the land they were unable at law from actually selling non movables which enabled the buildings to survive the various financial misfortunes and brave souls to again hazard their money in the hope that they could succeed where others had failed.

Eventually more finance was found and the 15”gauge railway was laid down in 1907 linking the Palace site with Wyndley pool for boating ,skating and fishing. The connection between The Crystal Palace grounds and Wyndley Pool proved popular with a changing audience less interested in evening entertainment but enjoying boating, fishing and the railway whilst using the Palace grounds for refreshment. The railway engines and rolling stock were built by a firm of model makers and was regarded as the acme of such engineering being perfect in every detail. In the ongoing years the stock was modernised and increased but still retained its superb engineering quality.
In 1910 with another decline in income fortunately along came Pat Collins a showman and owner of 3 other fairgrounds . Collins, the son of fairground entertainers was known as “The King Of Showmen”. Here was a man steeped in entertainment. He knew what to provide at a time when tastes were rapidly changing and working people were looking for days out.
He introduced new large rides, ballroom dancing in the Palace, better catering and and his concept of noise, music and excitement. He travelled the world to find the latest entertainments seizing on every new invention to power his fairground. Collins always had his finger on the pulse of popular taste, he was therefore able to turn the whole site into a profitable enterprise. The Miniature Railway was a particular success linking as it did Wyndley and the Fair and two rival businesses enjoyed increased joint success.

Between the wars the ballrooms, cafes and fair rides were very popular and on holidays the crowds were immense. After Pats death in the 40s and the effect of the war years the Palace dances faded in popularity , the fair visitors also declined although the numbers had a late surge in the lean 40’s .The railway hover was always popular and to a large extent kept the site afloat by its pulling power. Inexplicably the council who owned the land the railway ran on refused to renew the lease and in 1962 it closed.
However the railway was to outlast everything else and most of the rolling stock and engines are after a gap of 40 years , once again in use and can be seen at Cleethorpes, almost the last survivor of a wonderland started in 1868.
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Pedrocut said:
The Birmingham and Warwickshire Archaeological Society in 1906 were describing ancient roads from Gibbet Hill…

“Another picked up branches from Salford and B‘romford and then struck straight as
an arrow over this site to cross the Jockey Lane by the corner shop, and plunge into
Powell’s pool below Booth’s farm. It may be seen in dry summers—a great dam of
water pebbles extending from bank to bank near the reed bed, which is indeed the
long ago silted up basin of a pool which this great highway once upbore.”
Click to expand...
Interesting commentary; 120 years ago we had dry summers, so this is no a new thing! My grandfather (mothers) would always blame the steam trains. Sorry for the shift off topic but we can learn a lot from history!
 
joe 90 said:
Hi Richard l lived in Coppice View Rd we must know each other l went to Boldmere High School.lm 78yrs old now
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Joe, I lived in Handsworth but went to Sutton Park every chance I could get. I rode my bike there starting with an old girls bike that I put together and painted myself! Then to a used Phillips and to my pride and joy (which I kept in my bedroom) a Viking Severn Valley!
 
historymaker said:
The First Racecourse

JKC

Before the birmingham to sutton railway was built in 1862
visitors to sutton and the park came by omnibus-- a journey whith took the horse buses about 80 minutes.
In the 1840s an added attraction was the construction of a race course
in sutton park covering the plateau above blackroot gravel pit and extending from north of holly knoll to just beyond the present railway line--which at that time did not exist.In 1847 it was the venue for the birmingham races and where Tiny Wells a popular jockey of the time
won his first race.For over 20 years racing was held there and was very popular and a grandstand was built to accomadate the punters.
But sutton corporation had misgivings about the impact on the park
and with the structures erected-- and in 1849 ordered them to be taken down.Racing ceased there when in 1868 a new racecourse was constructed between westwood coppice and longmore pool.
Over 139 years later evidence of the old first racecourse can still be seen
take the right fork over the bridge by park house--past holly knoll
and further up on our left the curve of the track can be seen sweeping through the cutting the section behind is now overgrown with trees and bushes.
Click to expand...

Sarah Holbeche Diary (1802-1869)

12 August 1867.
“The Corporation - 11 to 7 consent for a race course to be made in the Park - much indignation caused, and justly condemned if as it is said to be a second Newmarket or Goodwood - the train of evils existing there must of necessity be brought here also - can such be called pious secular proceedings?”

29 August 1867.
"Lichfield races much of Birmingham scum passing."
 
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