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St Martins Puzzle

B

babs66

Brummie babby
Hi I have a puzzle which someone may be able to answer.

I have a copy of a marriage record for August 6th, 1899, between a William Walter Smith and an Agnes Gibson, which I obtained through the Birmingham Registry Office. They were married in the Church of St Martins in the parish of Birmingham, signed by Folliott S Keysell, entry number 179.

Since the release of the parish records on Ancestry (from the Birmingham Library) I thought I could match records but I have been unable to find them. I have searched through the St Martins collection to the individual record for number 179, however it is a different couple, although it is signed by Folliott S Keysell, curator. There are a number of other couples married on that same date of August 6th 1899 but no Smith. I have also searched the other Birmingham records on ancestry and no match so far.

Perplexed
Barb
 
Hello Barb,
Having looked at the entry for this marriage on FreeBMD it should be found on page 184 of the St Martins register...luckily there are folk who have access to these records on disc, so it will not be a long wait for you to have the answer you are seeking !

Margaret.
 
Hello Both,
I've had a look on the disc but the page is the same as Ancestry for different people. (George Bayliss) It's not on page 184 or entry 184 either, and Agnes doesn't show in the disc index. I also couldn't find it on Familysearch!!
Sorry!
rosie.
 
I think I read somewhere that there is a way to tell which church someone was married at from the volume and page number of the marriage registration index, that's if I didn't imagine it.
 
Well Barb,
you certainly DO have a mystery on your hands!! I would ask John Yates at the Register Office for advice on this...he is a mine of information & after all the original marriage certificate came from B'ham Register Office...please let us know if you ever get to the bottom of this mystery. Were the names of this couples father's correct on the certificate???
Margaret.
 
I have found a baptism for NORA ROSE SMITH 11/11/1900 @ St James, Ashted, B'ham. Parents: Agnes & William Walter Smith.

Margaret.
 
Thanks for your help, maybe I will talk to the guy at the registration office. William Walters occupation as a tool maker is correct, living in Ashley st and his father was also correct, a William Smith a turner. Agnes living in Cormwell St and her father George Gibson a hair dresser. Their children were baptised at St James, Ashted.

I thought maybe there may have been a chapel near the main church??? It is odd. He is my great uncle. I got his certificate so I could match him up to his sister who is my g grandmother Elizabeth Smith. (too common a surname). She married in Aston parish church. The family were originally living in Ryland st, Edgbaston.
 
Ancestry have indeed made available online many of the parish registers held by Birmingham Archives, it certainly isn't a complete collection. Some of the registers for the Birmingham area have never been microfilmed, so digitizing them is a much bigger and more expensive task, one which Ancestry seem to have put on the back-burner for now. It's also not clear whether all of the registers that have been microfilmed are online ......I don't think they have !
 
I have looked through St Martin's CD which covers 6 August 1899 and agree with Rosie entry 179 is for George Bayliss .

I also checked several years previous and after just in case (I'm transcribing some parish records at the moment and a few of the pages are out of year order) but as you have the entry number ??

It could possibly be St Mary's in Whittall Street/St Mary's Row a chapel of ease to St Martins around that time and within walking distance from Cornwell Street, where Agnes lived.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on solving your puzzle.

bewdley
 
Hi all,

I think this mystery might be solved. I emailed John Yates at the Birmingham Registry Office and he replied back with the following...

From 1899 - 1902 marriages in the parish of St. Luke, Birmingham took place at St. Martins Church. Although the entries show St. Martins as the Church, the entries are actually in the registers for St. Luke.

When the Library of Birmingham provided the registers for inclusion on The Ancestry website they did not provide the registers for St Luke as they were not available on microfilm and only those records on microfilm were provided to Ancestry.

Thanks for your help everybody

Barb
 
Yippee! So pleased that the mystery is solved...& this St Luke/St Martins info will be of help to others. I was sure that John Yates would know the answer, he is always happy to help.
Any more mysteries in your family tree???

Regards, Margaret.
 
This also explains why I have been unable to find baptism records for William Walter (born in Cregoe St in 1878) and my g grandmother Elizabeth ( born in Ryland Road 1886) and their other siblings. The records for these dates have unfortunately not been microfilmed. Their parents William (another William) and Sarah Ann Stokes were married in St Bartholomews in 1874. They all lived in the Edgbaston area, so St Lukes must have been their local church. Apparently it was condemned in 1899 pulled down and rebuilt, and reopened in 1903.

Barb
 
Brilliant, I have made a note - just hope I can find where I've filed it when/if I look for it again.
 
Mystery solved! Mr. Yates is so helpful. I thought I was looking in the wrong place until bewdley confirmed it wasn't there.
It's a shame all the Parishes aren't on Ancestry. I would like it if they had Church of the Messiah.
rosie.
 
Ah! There is always the new B'ham library of course...it is possible to ask the archive section if these missing church records are available to view, worked for me!

Margaret.
 
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