Royal George Tavern, Park Street/Digbeth

[Vivienne14]

The George pub (Royal George Tavern) on the corner of Park Street and Digbeth goes way back (although re-built in more recent times). James Drake's street plan of 1825 below shows the George on the corner of Park Street - just above the White Hart on the map. But the pub may soon disappear along with the former Music Hall behind it to make way for the Beorma development. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

pretty sure it will go viv...no way will the old music hall come before building birminghams highest office building...we can then all stand in awe and wonderment and look up at a magnificant empty building..sorry to sound cynical and a tad sarcastic but i have long accepted that history and our wonderful old buildings count for nothing with the powers that be of this city...slowly but surely they are chipping away at our heritage hoping we do not notice...those of us that care do notice but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it and i see no future for our past...fact...

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

There's a photo here in post #2 of the Royal George https://oldbirminghampictures.lefora.com/topic/2962889/Digbeth#.VjI6_TP46SM

i presume this was before it was changed into the later pub in post #1 above. Doubt whether there'll be much to salvage in the way of fixtures and fittings from the more modern George. But the older interior shot shows lots of fittings which would, I'm sure, have been treasured. Nice till, pumps and dividing boards on the counter. And surely the shelving unit on the back wall was salvaged? Mind you, in the 60s/70s people wouldn't give this stuff the time of day. I've been puzzling over the square box in the corner, right of the door. Is it light switches? Or some other bar essential? Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

I've found an old Royal George thread on here which didn't come up when I originally searched before setting up this new thread. Maybe mods could merge the threads please? Here's the old thread

https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2697&highlight=Royal+George%2C+Digbeth

A bit more history gleaned from the old thread. The pub was at one time called the Cock Inn (this part of Digbeth was once called Cock or Well Lane). But this must have been pre-1825 as Drake's map shows it as the George. It must have been another building at that time too and replaced in 1897 according to the old thread. Then in 1962 that building was demolished and the new Royal George we see today opened in 1964.

Here's Westley's 1731 map showing Cock or Well Street. There's a building on the corner with Park Street. Maybe it was the building that became/or already was the Cock Inn? Viv

 

[Mickymoo]

Here's a great pic. of the Bull Ring in 1959,showing the Royal George on the corner of Park Street,shortly before it was replaced by the current building.

 

[Vivienne14]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Wow, that certainly is a great photo Mickymoo, many thanks. This is the 1897 building. So this building would have been there for about 60 years. There would have been one prior to this - the Cock which by 1826 was called the George.

The photo shows a building between the George and the Music Hall on Park Street. Was wondering if this belonged to the pub? This building disappeared when the George was demolished in 1962. Viv.[/FONT]

 

[mhemery]

Here's a close up of the Royal George park st, I used to drink in the later one when Seamus Dunlevey was the owner/manager. Michael.

 

[Vivienne14]

That too is an excellent photo Michael. Thanks very much. The architecture echos the Music Hall behind the pub. And the building between the two seems to have the same lower windows as the George. Was wondering if this is a remaining part of the earlier pub. Or was it built at a later date to link the pub and the Music Hall? Does anyone know what the small building between the two was? Viv.

 

[Astoness]

thanks from me too michael...i had a photo of the royal george but cant find it ive been searching my files for days for it...

lyn

 

[Astonian]

hi michael
yes seamus ran it for donkey years and he had to irish lads whom was well known they was the burns brothers and they was both big ex boxers
in the midlands and well known around the clubs as well and they was well respected seamus and the other was big jackie a real heavvy big guy
and beleive me they was the most feared guys in brum there other brother was a drinking man much calmer that seamus being the oldest and big
jack i got to know personaly and drank with like the rest of the gaffers down digbeth as i go back years with them
digbeth holds alot of irish history and a community of yester years going back centeries and i have ran many irish theme and own pubs
for them , digbeth becomes a different world after dark beleive me especialy the bulling its a different world i can tell you with its charactors
best wishes Astonian;;

 

[Vivienne14]

Can well believe that Alan, especially around the back streets of Digbeth. I think the top of Digbeth is especially interesting because it's got very little left of it's old character. So the more we record of this history, the better. The George is a perfect example. It goes back a long way and I think it must have been closely linked to the Music Hall (although no proof). When the pub was replaced in the 1960s it seems to have swept away a lot of the history of this corner of Digbeth. Out of interest, does anyone know why it became the 'Royal' George? Viv.

 

[Astonian]

Hi Viv
The people i know and knew are no longer with us whom could have answered your question I do beleive there is people around whom will may know
very well as to how its got its name ; I myself my personal thoughts would be that given those early years as it was a music hall and very we
all very well know it was and bearing in mind in those days of 1800 1900 may be a member of the royal family visted in those days
and bearing in mind down the road was the digbeth civic hall was another music hall and further on there was another one
which i just cannot think at the moment its name may be went for entertainment in there or may be he openened it up
the grand music hall like digbeth centre where my ancestors used to go and dance as well as being the music hall
which i recall my mother telling me that one member of her relatives was some kind of compere i think they called him calling out the acts
and they danced there on stage and her mother had a monkey in a large cage as i recall seeing it and talking to it at there house called jacko
and he was taken every where they went
other wise i cannot see any other reason as to why but if my memory serves me correct it did have a artifact of a large ship above the building
which was bolted to the high part of the exteror was that thip called the royal george connection i wonder
still i do we will get a result sooner or later i think from some one or a member of this forum Alan;;; Astonian;;;

 

[Vivienne14]

That's it Alan! It was indeed a ship. Just looked at the Wikipedia details for HMS Royal George and it ties in with something Mikejee posted on the Digbeth Music Hall thread (https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=28993&highlight=Music+Hall,+Digbeth)


The ship sank during repairs at Spithead with many people on board - 900 perished, including Rear Admiral Kempernfelt named in Mikejee's post.Here's the Wikipedia link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royal_George_(1756)
Viv.

 

[mhemery]

There was a large painting of HMS Royal George on the wall in the front Bar, depicting a battle.

 

[Astoness]

i maybe wrong but im sure the newer pub was called the ship inn at one time...

 

[mhemery]

I think it was always the Royal George, but some may have referred to it as the ship because of large metal ship protruding from the wall above the window I stand to be corrected though. Michael.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Michael. When the old pub was replaced by the 1960s pub, the entrance must have shifted on to Digbeth itself. The old position of the entrance looks like an off-licence/outdoor. An impressive mural of the Royal George on the 1960s building. Here's the ship itself originally laid down as the Queen Anne in the 1746, launched in the 1756. Viv.

 

[mhemery]

Thanks vivienne, the door at the front on the corner was the door into the front bar/lounge down a few steps the three windows to the right above the whitewall are to that bar, the large window was just a display, the digbeth entrance gave access to the front bar, a back lounge and downstair function room, upstairs was private appartments.

Michael.

 

[Vivienne14]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Right thanks Michael. And thanks for the info about the interior. Thought it was a bit odd to have an off-licence at the main entrance.[/FONT]



Been reading the Beorma Environmental Statement of August 2015 and it gives a date relating to the George as being there BY 1795. So may have been even earlier. A nice snippet from the Statement of site's history is attached. Viv.

 

[Astonian]

Hi mhenry
many thanks for that info of the picture of the royal george as the artifact as i c alled it on the outside of the building
the model of that ship with its big huge sails mast made in a metal sculpur had a pair of huge sails to it
and looking at the picture you have brillently and well approved by us all what was on the bar wall matches the sculpture of that ship
and as we all know it was a really revelently a high buiding which could be seen from some distance
and just short way down from the roof was the living quarters and slightly below those widows around and across the front was
the sculpture at an angle for all to see the ship; and its big sails
there as been many a war time pubs named after war time ships around brum also many pubs have been named after royality
the kings head the queens arms just a couple of samples does anybody else can recall any think like that i wonder around brum there would be hundreds i reckon around london, best wishes Astonian;; Alan;;

 

[Vivienne14]

This is Thomas Hollins' drawing of St. Martin's Church in 1811. If you look closely(you'll need to enlarge the image) behind the first lamp post to the left of Nelson, you'll see a curve in the road. This must be Park Street. If it is, it must be the early George pub on that corner. And that building would be the predecessor of the 1890s pub. Don't know if that section of Digbeth (the road) was still Cock or Well Street at this time. Also, Park Street was in the 1500s known as Little Park Street - but way before the time of the drawing. Viv.

 

[mikejee]

Viv
This is from Kempsons map of 1810. Seems to be Digbeth

 

[brummie nick]

This is Thomas Hollins' drawing of St. Martin's Church in 1811. If you look closely(you'll need to enlarge the image) behind the first lamp post to the left of Nelson, you'll see a curve in the road. This must be Park Street.

Viv, wouldn't that have been Moor St? it seems to be opposite St Martins.

 

[pjmburns]

On the corner of Park Street in 1868 it was the London Museum Tavern and Music Hall. Before that it is harder to find as the directories tend to be alphabetical not by road. In 1890 it was the Canterbury Tavern and Music Hall. In 1895 it was the Pavilion Tavern and Concert Hall. By 1897 it was the Royal George. As only certain directories are online it is hard to tell when names changed.

Janice

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks for the Kempson's map Mike. Cock /Well Street would have changed name in the 1700s then. There's a later Well Street in a different position - maybe that's why it changed and became an extension of Digbeth.


Nick, I'm referring to the turning in the road much further down Digbeth, behind the lamp post on the immediate left of Nelson - you can just see a church spire behind Park Street. The turning to the immediate left where the carriage is tuning is Moor Street.


Janice, that's very interesting, so the Music Hall must have been an extension of the pub. I thought they must be linked in some way. Perhaps the little building between the George and the Music Hall (in mhemery's image in post #7) allowed access from the pub to the Hall.


All very interesting. Thanks. Viv.

 

[mikejee]

I think the music hall was always an extension of the pub and they are usually listed as together, and with the same owners.
Have tried to search to find out when it was the Canterbury Music Hall. The directories show it as the the London music hall in 1888, the Canterbury in 1890 and 1892 and the Pavilion in 1895, though these directories can be a yearf or so out of date sometimes. the newspaper references refer only to 1890 (when the stage manager was murdered just outside the theatre). and 1892, mentioned in a court case concerning a takeover of ownership. The entrance , caertainly when it opened as the London M.H. was from Digbeth down a passage. This is mentioned in a cutting I have placed on the museum thread and belwo
sorry if one half is a bit small.

 

[Vivienne14]

Blimey just tried to work out the name changes for this pub/music hall, and it's seen some changes. Hard to keep track of it all so drawn up a timeline of what we've gleaned :



Pre - 1785 (?) known as the Cock Inn (?)
1795 - the George had been built by this time
1825 - the George
1863 - building in front of Music Hall described as liquor vaults owned by Mr Biber
1863 - London Museum and Concert Hall opened
1888 - Theatre changed to the Canterbury Music Hall
1890 - the Canterbury Tavern and Music Hall
1892 - the Canterbury Music Hall
1894 - Theatre became the Pavilion
1895 - the Pavilion Tavern and Concert Hall
1896 - it became Coutts Theatre
1897 - the Royal George pub built
1900 - Theatre closed down
1912 - Theatre opened as the Bull Ring Cinema
1962 - the Royal George pub demolished
1964 - a new Royal George pub built (possibly also referred to as the Ship)
Mid- 1960s - Theatre used as an amusement arcade
2015 - the Royal George and the old theatre building pub earmarked for demolition as part of the Beorma development


Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

I think the music hall was always an extension of the pub and they are usually listed as together, and with the same owners.
Have tried to search to find out when it was the Canterbury Music Hall. The directories show it as the the London music hall in 1888, the Canterbury in 1890 and 1892 and the Pavilion in 1895, though these directories can be a yearf or so out of date sometimes. the newspaper references refer only to 1890 (when the stage manager was murdered just outside the theatre). and 1892, mentioned in a court case concerning a takeover of ownership. The entrance , caertainly when it opened as the London M.H. was from Digbeth down a passage. This is mentioned in a cutting I have placed on the museum thread and belwo
sorry if one half is a bit small.






TE]


Thanks Mike. The passageway to the Theatre sounds very ornate. Quite an entrance. Lots of detail of the architecture, a good source as The Music Hall has since been stripped of all it's details. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Is this a very early reference - 1553 - to the predecessor to the George? It's from the publication The Bull Ring Uncovered 1997 - 2001 by Catherine Patrick and Stephanie Ratkai

 

[mikejee]

Park st, according to the conjectured map of Bickley & Hill of 1553 was then called Little Park St, if the personal communication it accurate, then it probably would be the forerunner (in site at least) of the George