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Royal George Tavern, Park Street/Digbeth

Yes Mike, I think it could well be. Thanks for the 1553 map info. Janice also mentions in post #24 that the George is difficult to trace back before the 1860s I'm wondering if it was at that time (and maybe as far back as the 1830s) called the Old Phoenix Tavern/Inn, which was also on Park Street at #3. The Bull Ring uncovered publication mentions this inn or tavern. Seems unlikely - although not impossible - that there were 2 pubs; either next door to each other or directly opposite each other. Could be completely wrong, but as there's no 'George' yet traced between 1820s and 1860s maybe that's why, because it had changed its name - this time to the Old Phoenix. Viv.
 
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The Phoenix was on the same side as the Royal George,no more than 75 yards away,about half way along, before you get to the railway bridge.
 
Thanks Mickeymoo. Well no shortage of refreshment in that part of Park Street then! Viv.
 
Summarised from McKenn'a Central Birmingham Pubs (also with some info from directories and Warwickshire victualers database):
The Cock Inn was one of the original coaching inns, and seeems to have been on the site of the Royal George.
1663 Hearth tax returns landlord of Cock was John Wall
1665 Poor law returns landlord of Cock was William Weeley
After 1714 all mention of the cock disappears and Royal George is mentioned, probably from a rebuild.
1767 Sketchley's directory gives landlord of Royal George as William Dunn. He is followed by his wife and then his daughters ("The Misses Dunn").
But Warwickshire victualers database lists Elizabeth Dann/Dunn as licensee in 1806 and 1808
1779 Landlord was William Turner who was forced to sell after bankruptcy.
1815-1820 Thomas Packwood
1821-1824 William Martin
1826 William Welch.
1833 William Huntress, then described as a Commercial Hotel.
1841,1845, 1849 Richard Bates , called George Commercial Hotel.
1851-1860 Miss Hannah Maria Taylor
then (1860 or 1861) taken over by George Bibber, who renamed it the next year as The London Museum Tavern and added the music Hall in 1863
1877 Donald MacInnes purchesed the pub and music hall and ran it till 1887.
the Alex McGregor ran it for two years , probably as manager.
In 1890 donald MacInnes is in charge again and changed name to Canterbury Tavern.
1894 Pavillion Tavern under Alfred Hardy
1896 Pavillion Tavern under Robert Hall
1896 Brewers Henry Mitchell bought pub only and renamed it back to Royal George
William Coutts purchased music hall and renamed it Coutts theatre, which lasted till 1900 when it closed because of licensing problems.
 
Mike's 1810 map in #22 shows the George on the corner of Park Street. I have a copy of an 1818 map and it is also marked "George" on the corner of Park Street. The map is in an 1818 directory which lists (now I have the name from the above post) Thomas Packwood, George Inn, Digbeth.

Also, just a thought, George I came to the throne in 1714 about the time the name seems to have changed!

Janice
 
I have just found this reference the the Museum Tavern dated Sunday September 7th 1862 from "The Era" (a London Theatrical paper).
The Era 1862.jpg
Janice
 
Well, you've both been busy Mike and Janice! Thanks for all the information, fills in a lot of the gaps in its history. Makes perfect sense Janice about the name change following the new king to the throne.


Although Mr Biber was refused a licence for the Museum Tavern in 1862, it didn't put him off because he must have re-applied in 1863. It looks like there was a rush for music licences in 1862, a lot were declined.


I'd like to try and find out if there are other references to it being the Swan (Robert Rastell, proprietor of the Swan tenement mentioned in the Bull Ring Uncovered publication). I know there was a Swan at the junction of High St/New Street but that is further away. Bit found anything else about it as yet.


Viv.
 
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In the Bull Ring Uncovered it suggests it was just renamed as the George (at least that is how I read it).

Janice
 
Hi Janice. Sorry I'm not explaining myself very well. I'd like to get back as far as possible in the history of the site and it's use an inn. Chances are it goes even further back than we think as Digbeth/Deritend was a key area in the early history and development of Birmingham. Travellers and merchants coming to Birmingham would have doubtless found this (and the Old Crown) a convenient place to stop off. Our findings suggest that in 1553 the Swan was on the site., but was this when it was built, and/or when it became an inn? We also know that later on there was an early coaching inn on the site (so about mid-1600s) which would perhaps be when the name changed to the Cock Inn. This suggests it performed a very useful function at this point in Digbeth (refreshments, changing horses, accommodation?.) I'd love to be able to confirm when it was the Swan - was it in 1533 or earlier? Would like to track down any other references to the Swan as it might be an interesting snapshot of very early Birmingham history. But having said all that, there may not be any other information about it. Viv.
 
Very well explained viviene regarding these travellers and merchants coming to the bull ring in those days bearing in mind the surrounding area of digbeth and deritend itself with the cattle markets and with the hide and skinn and all those archways down from moor street and down to digbeth
all those archways was used for some think or another for trades the cobbled streets they was in those days there was alot of building offering accomadation
and to me new cannal street number one was a boarding house from what year i do not know but it was a large propertt next to the hide and skin yards
which had about 12 rooms in tho,s early years there was what you called B and B FOR Travells on most corners from one end to another
as i am tapping this out i think i have an old book on the early years of birmingham stating as a focal point of the selling of such animals
and i think there is a sketch of it i will try and dig it out it could take me a day or two but i will do my most utter best to find it
and then i will try and get my son to down load such info; best wishes Alan;; ASTONIAN
 
Vivienne14 said:
Hi Janice. Sorry I'm not explaining myself very well. I'd like to get back as far as possible in the history of the site and it's use an inn. Chances are it goes even further back than we think as Digbeth/Deritend was a key area in the early history and development of Birmingham. Travellers and merchants coming to Birmingham would have doubtless found this (and the Old Crown) a convenient place to stop off. Our findings suggest that in 1553 the Swan was on the site., but was this when it was built, and/or when it became an inn? We also know that later on there was an early coaching inn on the site (so about mid-1600s) which would perhaps be when the name changed to the Cock Inn. This suggests it performed a very useful function at this point in Digbeth (refreshments, changing horses, accommodation?.) I'd love to be able to confirm when it was the Swan - was it in 1533 or earlier? Would like to track down any other references to the Swan as it might be an interesting snapshot of very early Birmingham history. But having said all that, there may not be any other information about it. Viv.
Click to expand...

also viv i bet the golden lion would have been a good little watering hole as well....of course we still have that pub but only just

lyn
 
Hi Alan. Your mention of the hide, skin and cattle markets not only paints a very busy picture of Digbeth/Deritend but it conjures up the stench that must have hung over the place too. Tanning hides was a very smelly process as would the cattle markets. The combination must have been nauseous. The B&Bs you mention can't have aired their rooms too often for fear of the disgusting smell outside! Be good if you can find that book.


Lyn, yes it's sad to see the Golden Lion in its sorry state. Pity it was ever moved, might have had a better future if it had been left in its original place like the Old Crown. Easy to say that with hindsight I suppose. Viv.
 
Hi Viv;
Yes indeed i can recall it very vividley new cannal street alone on its own was very smelly street to walk along at any given time
the railway arches was packed with animals some days you could see the steam off the animals coming over and through the high woooden gates
was on those arches there would be a hundred or more up in one of those arches each of the railway bridges coming down from the top of moor street
to the bottom end of digbeth and jamica row they wood penn them up over night ready for the next day they would have arrived over or during the night
and the week end i always got there early on a sunday morning got the thirty bus from the ansells brewery for a penny got off at henrys and walked down through crooked lane where many years back they had a holding cell for any drunk or burglar caught whild the old paddy wagon as they called many years ago [ meaning the black mira van and run them into digbeth police station around the block and then horris the gaoler would charge them put them in one of his cells then they would be transported up to the lane for courts
from crooked lane i would come out at the top of bordesly street and walk down past the oldpark which at some point was graves before turning it into an open plan as it is today
the polish society was not there in those days i cannot think what it was but once you got to new cannal street at the cros roads of new cannal street was where the coffee shop and the B AND B THEY RAN FOR MANY YEARS
AND THE AJOING HOUSE TO IT WAS NUMBER 1 NEW CANNAL STREET That was there living quarters and in the kitchen back door was ajoing typoo
loading bay and also directly the hide and skin tanning yard bones of carcuses and piled high all over the yard stacked high was cow hides and sheep hides and the wool and blood every where up to the war years they did occasionional have rats running around the yard
when you walked out of the back gate of my grand father he kept is vans there and walk a little further we was right in the middle of the tanning yard
before the war mom lived there she was there only child and the gaffer of the hide and skin would come in for a cuppa and say ernie can we borrow old jacko
he was the little jack russel they had because we seen a couple of old rats running around the yard he used to borrow him and they got rid of there rats
under the arches they had different penns in them one for sheep and one for pigs and one for horse ; and many times one would escape or a couple mighy just run up bordesly street and the men would chase after it and back on to the skin yard i used to climb up on a chair when i seen hundreds of cows coming down the new cannal strert of the shop window and the shop front steps they would stop and stare through the window
when they walked down from the arches they took the whole lengh of the street pavements as well as i said they came down in big herds i used to step downfrom the window if one stopped and stared into the shop
in those daysthe digbeth markets was bustling 24 hours and as you say travellers of all trades with wares would travel to birmingham
and as typooh was ajoining our building there distance lorry drivers and cattle men would stay at our BnB
They used to have big partys at that property at christmas time relatives from abroad canada and perth and such place would come over and stay
along with cattlemen drivers from afar would stay i remember one christmas the whole period of christmas these travellers came and stayed
the place was jammed packed from ground floor to top flor and i was in the shop font and they sat little me on the coffee shop table and asked and got me a
to sing a christmas caroll and everybody was giving me one penny and they gave me aroud of applause
as we are sorting ourhouse tomorrow so i should be able to find the book i have mentionioned so hopefully bysat \sunday i i will be able to down load the sketching and details of the original starting of the market and etc; mr banna king started his empire along new cannal street just before the traffic lights which are still there today on new cannal street i am trying to think of his name it will come to me soon best wishes Alan;; Astonian;;
 
Some interesting facts about medieval Birmingham including Park Street here. https://sarahhayes.org/ On rhs is a list of "top posts" this is where I clicked to see more info. Couldn't see anything about taverns though!

Janice
 
Many thanks Alan for your memories. An interesting record of the area. What a community it must have been at that time. The burial ground on Park Street was, I think, for St Martin's church when their own land was full.


Thanks Janice too. This illustrates perfectly what Alan has told us about tanning - although centuries before. But it's good to find these features of the area are still in living memory. The images on that link are excellent. Viv.
 
HI LYN
Hi Lynn i think you will find the newer pub was rebuilt about two hundred yards or may be three hundred yards going up from the george
as if you are heading for moor street just before or actualy on the bend that was the ship and it used to be the old motor car tax and licenceing offices
that had about tree or four stories high with glass frontage above they closed it down and turned ito a pub for quite afew years
then they closed it down for awhile and renamed it some think else where you had to go up steps to get into it just before they built the ring road
and that parade of shops up the ramp or i could say as you came down the ramp or steps as if you was going to markt
there was a name for this but i cannot recall the name if any body can think what it was would you please let us know it where the kiddies rides was over looking the ring road if you looked across you would see this pub and dance place from there
and i beleive it was before they ever put a big bull up above the building the bull i am on about was the very first old one way back in the early fiftys
then they buit a ramp up the shopping area tat turns as you go up to it and through the auto matic doors and you would get the escalater furter up
at the top of the ramp was a bar and resturuant which later in years changed the name to the blarney stone before that the bar resturaunt was
owned and ran by a couple namey renna and renarta it was one or the other had split and i think it was renna left renata out of there friendship
for some one else as time went on renarta could not live with out rennai so he hung himself in the cellars of the bar
it changed the name again for a little while but in the end they sold it off and a certain bussinessman bought it whom was a very close friend to sean donleivvy
for many years of there lives sean was running the george and his friend whom i will not name for variuos reasons bought it and called it the blarny stone
and my good lady and myself was managers for him and on the grand opening of the night we charged 25 quid per person to come up to the main dance hall and resturaunt and we had alan towers and we had big jack charlton the foot baller and he brought a commedian friend with him
big jack stayed at the hotel on broad street and peoplewas buying him guiness all night long here was tw bar tables fulled with pints of guiness the glasses was shoulder to shoulder and he stayed till four in the morning before going back to the hotel and he drank every drop of it and still walked the white line as they say to the drunk if you aint drunk
but getting back to the ship pub outside on the side of the blarney on the balcony you could sit out side and over look the ring road directly
and you would see the ship pub as it was then look to your right to look down wards to digbeth you cold look across to dons pub the gorge and you would see the burns brotheres sitting out side doing the door and they would not any old type especialy the long haired studunts in them days they was called beatnicks
or drop outs because they used to run a pub down in them days because they would sit in your pub with a two pints between and smoke a spliff and pas it to each other taking up the proper boozers such as the hard working irish lads whom would get dropped off by the gangers masters
whom payed them 25 quid a shift they was of course called subbies because thats what they did they got the subs each night and at the end of the week the gaffers would take it off there wage packets then they would stuble down digbeth and either go to the rain bow or the one time called the kerry man before heading back to there digs on stratford road even them some would stop at Mcveias by the bridge whomis also a very good close to the dunlevvys family
and most would be in braithwte street just up the road from the black horse the the qeens head opersite then morning comes straigh to the mermaid for a pick up then they would be sped down to the nec buildind coventry
as i said look directly across to the ship eyes right the gorge and that was looking from across from the blarney stone balcony best wishes Alan ;;Astonian;;
 
The ex Royal George was last visible on the corner of Park Street and Digbeth in October 2017 as it was being demolished.





By November it was all gone.



 
The site as it is now at the end of March 2018. Some more demolition (the temporary modern building on the right in the above photo).





This was a few days earlier.



 
Astoness said:
pretty sure it will go viv...no way will the old music hall come before building birminghams highest office building...we can then all stand in awe and wonderment and look up at a magnificant empty building..sorry to sound cynical and a tad sarcastic but i have long accepted that history and our wonderful old buildings count for nothing with the powers that be of this city...slowly but surely they are chipping away at our heritage hoping we do not notice...those of us that care do notice but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it and i see no future for our past...fact...

lyn
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Hear Hear Lyn bravo , get rid of the of the heritage , and erect some useless monstrosity .
 
Hi everyone, I have been reading this page with interest, the music hall, i thought the name was called Coutts Music Hall & Theatre, and the Royal George have always known by this name. I wonder if anybody can help, I am interested to know, what happened the the big Metal Ship on the building, or where did it go, hope that some one could answer this for me. many thanks in advance
 
If you look at Viv's timeline in post #27 the music hall was Coutts from 1896 to about 1900 then it closed. When it reopened it had a new name.
 
Sadly no Elaine. But it had certainly gone by October 2017. See Ellbrown’s first photo in post #50. The ship must have been at least 25+ foot tall. Viv.

BAC13AE7-BA53-433B-8701-5C3B732FFC59.jpeg
 
I too would like to find out what happened to it Elaine. So many of these murals disappear during demolition. Be nice to hear that it ended up at another pub. We can dream ! Viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
I too would like to find out what happened to it Elaine. So many of these murals disappear during demolition. Be nice to hear that it ended up at another pub. We can dream ! Viv.
Click to expand...
The Ship from the Royal George went back to the brewery, who then put it in storage......how do I know, well when it closed on the door was the plaque saying who was the licensees, and my great uncle Robert Burrows was licenced from late 1930's till his death in 1954, his wife Gladys then took it over for 12 months.....the plaque on the door was still there with his name on in the early 1990's and I phoned the brewery to see if I could have it, they did say yes if I could get it off, I tried to no avail, I enquired about the ship and that's when they said it would go into storage! There is a lovely write up in the book "The Bullring" about the pub, and Bob Burrows's parrot, also included is the "ratcatcher" from the market!
 
Thank you so much Loisand - good to hear it’s still around in storage. Maybe one day it will come out again. Viv.
 
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