• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Hand. Elusive Aunt & Uncle.

S

senoraruz

master brummie
looking for info about John Joseph Hand & his wife Nellie nee Norman who married in 1938 in Birmingham. I know nothing at all about John Joseph. Nellie was born in Bradford in 1908 & they lived in Grosvenor Road Great Barr. I understand that they had at least 2 children & were still at the same address when they died in about 1960.
Any clues would be gratefully received.
 
John Joseph hand died in 1960 his birth year given as 19o3 , he was possibly born in the last quarter of 1903 registered in 1904 in Grantham Lincolnshire.
1911 Chapel Row , Skillington nr Grantham.
Henry Hand age 34 b Barlestone Leics. Limestone labourer
Frances Ellen ( nee Ingletonage 35 b Skillington
John age 7 b Skillington
Albert age 5 months b Skillington.
The only death I could find of Nellie Hand was in Birmingham in 1972 but her birthdate was given as Dec 16th 1907, the birthdate of the Nellie Norman b Bradford was Dec 1908.
 
The John Joseph Hand born Grantham appears to die in Grantham in 1978.

The only other John Joseph Hand born in England died young in Middlesbrough.

Could he be Irish/Scottish?
 
According to the 1939 register Nellie re-marries to a Whitehouse, however I can't find any marriage or death.

Neither can I find any Hand/Norman children, apart from 3 in Liverpool that are unlikely.
 
John Joseph and Nellie are listed on the eroll in 1939 in Grosvenor Road.
In 1945 a John J and Nellie are listed at 91 Alexandra Road. Also there are William and Eliza Freeman. Any relatives?
 
pjmburns said:
John Joseph and Nellie are listed on the eroll in 1939 in Grosvenor Road.
In 1945 a John J and Nellie are listed at 91 Alexandra Road. Also there are William and Eliza Freeman. Any relatives?
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone for looking. They are a very elusive pair. A cousin remembers visiting them when she was a child in the early 50s & is sure there were a couple of children, but it's a long time ago & she can't remember details. As far as I am aware, the Freemans are not related unless they are sister & brother in law to John Joseph Hands.
 
There is a Family tree entry on Ancestry that gives John Joseph Hand b 1901 Aston parents Joseph and Jane nee Beaumont
I have found the family in 1911 Joseph and Jane with their 7 children including John age 9 b Aston and Janes father James living at 169 Park road , Aston.
There is only one John J Hand around that time and he is John James b 1902 Aston.
The entry also says that John married Helena Mary Norman in 1938.
 
I think Helena is Nellie. My Dad had a cousin Nellie who, it turned out, was really Helen. We only found out when her first granddaughter was given the name Helen!
 
I'm used to the short forms and pet names for Elizabeth but always forget that Nellie/Nell can be used for Helen and Eleanor etc. Funny how things change, we'd be more likely to use Ellie these days. My Dad was John but was called Jack by his family. I can understand the Helen/Nellie pet name but not that one. All the variations of Margaret are confusing too - must keep this in mind when I'm looking for people, I'd have missed that one Alberta.
 
My mom was an Ellen but always called Nelly, except by her brother who called her Ellen Louise Green Draws. This referred to her going to a posh school, Warwick Girls High School .
Cheers Tim
 
Alberta, not sure if you're saying you think this is the family or not but it doesn't appear to be, the John J Hand son of Joseph and Jane is John James Hand who dies in 1978 and marries Jane E Brown in 1928.

This might be one of those cases when a marriage certificate is needed.

The pet name that I can't work out is Polly for Mary.
 
Last edited:
The John J of Park Road is John James on his marriage cert to Jane Brown so it would seem to rule him out. I can't find the tree Alberta refers to but I am convinced that Nellie and Helena are the same person.
 
I am not sure if this muddies the water or not. The John J and Nellie I found at 81 Grosvenor Road are in Harborne not the Grosvenor Road in Great Barr. Is this coincidence or not?
 
We have the marriage cert, which gives her name as Nellie. Have heard a rumour that she was actually Helena Mary, but have no proof as Grandad never had his older children baptised, although my mother who was his daughter to a second marriage, was baptised. The marriage cert in 1938 gives John James age as 38 & his father, of the same name was employed as a shepherd. I have discounted the Aston family for that reason. It hardly seems a likely occupation for anyone living in Aston.Not sure about the Harborne address, but can't find any trace of JJ prior to the marriage.
We will just have to keep trying
Incidently, the witnesses on the cert are Nellies father & a Mrs M Smith. No idea who she may be.
Thanks again for looking.
 
In #1 you said "John Joseph" but in #14 you refer to the marriage of "John James" - sorry to seem dense but which one are we looking for?
 
Sorry about that. It's John Joseph.....both father & son. In fact, the names & father's occupation makes me wonder whether they were Irish. Don't know if Hand is an Irish surname.
 
I did look and there seem to be several John Joseph's but it is very hard to trace Irish records. There are then lots of Irish marriages of people named John Joseph!! Census records are hit and miss as well I think.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-4-30_13-59-3.png
    upload_2018-4-30_13-59-3.png
    17.5 KB · Views: 2
MWS - Funny that on the electoral register for 81 Grosvenor Road, Harborne also has a Whitehouse living at the same address. Coincidence?
I also had trouble with Polly (I have a Polly who was named after a Mary). I was told it came through Molly, so Mary, Molly, Polly. But who knows?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top