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Green William - where was he born?

J

jjuj

master brummie
Hi,
I have purchased 4 birth certs for william green b 1852 - all wrong. His father was Thomas [shoemaker] mother I believe to be hannah pearce. All censuses states william born birmingham, but birmingham registry office can find no record for him with these parents. What area is covered by birmingham in 1852? Any suggestions as to how I can find his birth cert? :fatigue:

Jean
 
Hi jjuj

I have had ancestors who were born in the Handsworth area of Birmingham and they were registered at West Bromwich.

Hope it helps

bewdley
 
Would Handsworth or West Bromwich not come under Birmingham for cets?

Jean

bewdley said:
Hi jjuj

I have had ancestors who were born in the Handsworth area of Birmingham and they were registered at West Bromwich.

Hope it helps

bewdley
Click to expand...
 
Several of my family were in Handsworth and the registration district was West Bromwich but the certificates were issued to me from Birmingham Registry Office.
 
Thanks for replying. I really don't know which way to turn now.

Wendy said:
Several of my family were in Handsworth and the registration district was West Bromwich but the certificates were issued to me from Birmingham Registry Office.
Click to expand...
 
Mmmm! Perhaps going back to square one & starting with what you know about his parents will be of help to you....have you found his family on every census that you can?? Do you know where his parents married?? Perhaps that is where William was born, especially if he was the eldest child ?? Let us know the names & DOB for his parents & I am sure you will get 1st class advice from fellow members on the site....

Margaret.
 
Harborne was in Staffordshire and Kings Norton in Worcestershire, so records may be in another county, do you have an idea where he was born, like Margaret says,have you traced him with his parents on census returns, that may help and if all fails, post us details if you are happy to do that and there are afew members who will look up for you too, sometimes there is an obvious answer that you can't see yourself but someone else will.
Sue
 
1861 census entry.
Fish Lane Harborne

Thomas Green age 38 b. Harborne Master shoe amker
Hannah age 36 b. Kingswood Gloucs
Ann age 15 b. Kingswood Gloucs
Thomas age 13 b. Kingswood
William age 9 b. Birmingham
Alfred age 6 b. Birmingham
Henry age 1 b. Birmingham

Thomas Green and Hannah Pearce were married in Dursley Gloucester

One Explanation is that if the birth of William coincieded with their move to Birmingham he may not have been registered.
It was not compulsory by law to register your child before 1874.
 
Hi to all,
this is what I have on wiliam some of which is confirmed with certs. I think it may be the right family but cannot be certain without his birth cert. Any help will be appreciated.

Working backwards

1915 died age 63 7 sherborne street
1911 WILLIAM 59
SARAH JANE 52 [COULTHARD}
WILLIAM HENRY 26
HENRY [UNCLE HARRY] 23
PERCY HORACE 12

1901 4 COURT 4 SHERBORNE STREET
WILLIAM 48
SARAH JANE 42
WILLIAM 16
HENRY 13
PERCY 2

1891 4/10 SHERBORNE STREET
WILLIAM GREEN AGE 39
SARAH JANE
WILLIAM HENRY
HENRY
JAMES

marr to Sarah Jane Coulthard April 1884 age 32 - father thomas green [shoemaker] no addresses given
witnesses A Green [male] C Green [female]

The following is not proven until I get birth cert. I have a marr for a thomas green & hannah pearce in Gloucester in 1842. three of their children were born in gloucester, the rest in birmingham. i have a birth cert for alfred b 1854 mother is hannah pearce - address was communication row.
1881 - 2/21 PENN STREET ASTON
WILLIAM AGE 29 [BRASS ?]
IS A BOARDER WITH BROTHER
THOMAS 33 & HIS WIFE
EMMA 31


1871 - 23 TENNANT STREET
THOMAS 47 [[SHOEMAKER]]
HANNAH 46
WILLIAM AGE 18 [[BRASSFOUNDER]]
ALFRED 15
HENRY 13
ELIZABETH 8
SAMUEL 5

1861 -
FISH LANE HARBORNE
THOMAS 38 MASTER SHOEMAKER
HANNAH 36
ANN 15
THOMAS 13
WILLIAM 9
ALFRED 6
HENRY 1
 
Thank you, this is the family I am following. My thought was he got lost in the move :)

Alberta said:
1861 census entry.
Fish Lane Harborne

Thomas Green age 38 b. Harborne Master shoe amker
Hannah age 36 b. Kingswood Gloucs
Ann age 15 b. Kingswood Gloucs
Thomas age 13 b. Kingswood
William age 9 b. Birmingham
Alfred age 6 b. Birmingham
Henry age 1 b. Birmingham

Thomas Green and Hannah Pearce were married in Dursley Gloucester

One Explanation is that if the birth of William coincieded with their move to Birmingham he may not have been registered.
It was not compulsory by law to register your child before 1874.
Click to expand...
 
Great info Alberta !! It does occur to me that perhaps " William" is not his full name...perhaps there is another name before it ??? I have been in this situation myself so I know how desperate it becomes to find a DOB for someone you are searching for.... Happy hunting !!

Margaret.
 
I think william is the only name he has - Re his marriage & death certs. It's been a 3 year desperate chase I would love to finish.

Jean
 
Thomas and Hannah plus 2 children Thomas and Emma are on the 1851 at Belgrave Street in the Kings Norton Reg. district.
 
HI WILLIAM GREEN
Young william green went to steward street school in ladywood birmingham 18 in the 1940s and the son went there as well
and they lived in shakespear rd ladywood ;after movng from sherborne st
william green senior worked at a company called radex for many years in fact a good lengh of his life
he was on the electrician maintenance team through out the factory along with my oldest brother when he was young
and william green took him under his wing for years
radex was a big company and they was in edward street which was about a quarter of a mile from both our houses
i myself started there when i was fresh out of school on a capstone machine and they lived in shakspear rd
afew doors from mossys ; and the cunninghams family ;
best wishes astonian
 
Looking at this i thought just maybe he was born Kingswood also, so had a look at boundary changes through the years and it was a magical mystery tour, it got swapped around a lot of reg districts, very confusing but, and i can't be 100% about this, i think this is a strong contender --

William Green 1st qtr 1852 Keynsham, Somerset 5c 749

Now then, i suggest you send for this cert but you must stipulate that you only want it sent if the details on the cert match your criteria, fathers name and occupation/mothers name etc, if it doesn't then they will not send it and you get your fee back, at least that's what you have been able to do in the past


bren
 
As Thomas was living in Kings Norton and was his occupation was a cordwainer on the 1851 census perhaps his birth was registered at Worcester.
 
Thank you, yes their other daughter was in Gloucester with grandparents. So a birth in Kings Norton would be regitered in Birmingham?
Jean

lynne webb said:
Thomas and Hannah plus 2 children Thomas and Emma are on the 1851 at Belgrave Street in the Kings Norton Reg. district.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you, You have been busy. I will do as you suggest and see what this comes up with.

Jean

bren said:
Looking at this i thought just maybe he was born Kingswood also, so had a look at boundary changes through the years and it was a magical mystery tour, it got swapped around a lot of reg districts, very confusing but, and i can't be 100% about this, i think this is a strong contender --

William Green 1st qtr 1852 Keynsham, Somerset 5c 749

Now then, i suggest you send for this cert but you must stipulate that you only want it sent if the details on the cert match your criteria, fathers name and occupation/mothers name etc, if it doesn't then they will not send it and you get your fee back, at least that's what you have been able to do in the past


bren
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for all that information it is very interesting to learn about the neighbourhood, from someone who remembers it so well.

Jean

Astonian said:
HI WILLIAM GREEN
Young william green went to steward street school in ladywood birmingham 18 in the 1940s and the son went there as well
and they lived in shakespear rd ladywood ;after movng from sherborne st
william green senior worked at a company called radex for many years in fact a good lengh of his life
he was on the electrician maintenance team through out the factory along with my oldest brother when he was young
and william green took him under his wing for years
radex was a big company and they was in edward street which was about a quarter of a mile from both our houses
i myself started there when i was fresh out of school on a capstone machine and they lived in shakspear rd
afew doors from mossys ; and the cunninghams family ;
best wishes astonian
Click to expand...
 
Hello again Jean...have you considered that perhaps William was born in the 3rd qtr of 1852...and perhaps his birth was registered in the 1st quarter of 1853???

Margaret.
 
Hello Margaret, Yes, I have tried 1853 as well as 1851. Birmingham Registry Office did a a year before and after search with no luck. It's such a common name, but I only found 2 Thomas Greens [the father] in 1841 one was in Kingswood, Gloucester he was classified only as a Journeyman and seems to fit!!! The other was a shoe makers apprentice in Birmingham, living with a William Ainge a Cordwainer in Little Charles Street, but I could not trace him again afterwards
with a son William.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Jean
skylark said:
Hello again Jean...have you considered that perhaps William was born in the 3rd qtr of 1852...and perhaps his birth was registered in the 1st quarter of 1853???

Margaret.
Click to expand...
 
To the best of my knowledge, there was never a shoe makers shop in Fish Lane/Grays Road. All of the properties in Fish Lane/Grays Road with exception of the Fish Inn were domestic or with Nail Maker workshops behind.

However a relative of mine (via ancestral marriage) was also a shoe maker and he had a shop on Heath Road, Harborne. The rear of his property backed onto Fish Lane/Grays Road so its possible your relative worked with my relative.

My relatives name was Richard Davies and he resided at 23 Heath Road (now called High St, same numbering) - that property still exists heavily changed. It became the off-license for the Plough pub next door. It is now a unit of two modern flat conversions. At the rear there was a brew-house that has now been incorporated into the modern conversion and a long garden that ended at the boundary of the yard that was behind the Plough in Fish Lane/Grays Road. In living memory that yard was used by Vickers Bakery (later Hughleys bakery) for parking the delivery vans. Before that it was the site of a small row of cottages. Today it has one modern detached house on it. Although unproven, its quite likely there was a rear entrance way from Fish Lane/Grays Road into the garden of 22 Heath Road/High St - especially if there was a need for such.

By the way Harborne was pre-1891 in Staffordshire and Smethwick was part of Harborne parish. The parish church for Harborne was St Peters (still exists) with local chapelancies in parts of Harborne & Smethwick, including St Johns Harborne (destroyed by the Luftwaffe in 1941). Harborne was at one time also a sub-district of Kings Norton (also in Staffordshire at that time).
 
There is a baptism for Thomas William Green at St Thomas’ Birmingham on August 13[SUP]th[/SUP] 1848 Mother Hannah, Father Thomas, Cordwainer, address Tennant Street.
 
Thank you. That is a lot of very interesting information. That's a nice thought that there could be a tenuous link in our families history. I will get to the bottom of g.grandfather William yet!!!
 
That could be Williams brother Thomas b 1848, although none of the children appear to have midle names. I did not find them in Tennent Street until 1871. I have not been able to find baptisms for any of the children, can I ask where you found this entry?

bewdley said:
There is a baptism for Thomas William Green at St Thomas’ Birmingham on August 13[SUP]th[/SUP] 1848 Mother Hannah, Father Thomas, Cordwainer, address Tennant Street.
Click to expand...
 
Hi jjuj

I found it in Ancestry’s Birmingham, England Baptisms 1832 - 1912.

In 1851 Thomas’ family were living in Belgrave Street. Sticking my neck out I would think this could be what is now the Belgrave Road, Balsall Heath in Birmingham. In the census book the road before is Moseley Road and after Sherborne Road.

If you take a look at this 1847 map of Birmingham Parishes you will see where Kings Norton parish started.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Lib-Central-Archives-and-Heritage%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092751910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper

1851 census for 9 Tennant Street there is a Samuel Green, born 1813 Harborne and his family. It would be good to find a connection between them: it could be that Thomas gave Samuel's address for Thomas William Green’s baptism at St Thomas’ Church.

Hope it helps, bewdley
 
Hi Bewdley,

I can see you have worked hard on this. In the 1911 census William states his birth place as Balsall Heath!!!! Every other time just Birmingham, so why can't I find his birth cert? I have found the births of all his siblings, so cannot imagine that his parents did not register him.

I have tried in the past to find a connection to Samuel as Thomas was also born Harborne and may have been related. This side of the family appear not to have any baptisims which could have help me out.

I appreciate your help in this, Thanks, jjuj

bewdley said:
Hi jjuj

I found it in Ancestry’s Birmingham, England Baptisms 1832 - 1912.

In 1851 Thomas’ family were living in Belgrave Street. Sticking my neck out I would think this could be what is now the Belgrave Road, Balsall Heath in Birmingham. In the census book the road before is Moseley Road and after Sherborne Road.

If you take a look at this 1847 map of Birmingham Parishes you will see where Kings Norton parish started.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Lib-Central-Archives-and-Heritage%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092751910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper

1851 census for 9 Tennant Street there is a Samuel Green, born 1813 Harborne and his family. It would be good to find a connection between them: it could be that Thomas gave Samuel's address for Thomas William Green’s baptism at St Thomas’ Church.

Hope it helps, bewdley
Click to expand...
 
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