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Carter, Frank Herbert (1895-1968), possibly of Aston

ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Frank Herbert Carter (9 November 1895 – 1968) was probably born and lived in Aston. Here he is on leave in Aston during the Great War as a Serjeant in the Machine Gun Corps. He had an eventful life, marrying a French girl in 1919, living in France until June 1940 when he had to flee and then living the rest of his life in Birmingham with no further contact with wife and son. (See this thread under WW2 - Blitz & Homefront for further information: https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/three-birmingham-home-guards.50289/ ).

I'm wondering if any family history expert on the forum could possibly tell me anything more about his location, especially in the earlier part of his life. Should very much appreciate any information so that we can add to his story.

Other images are of him with his French bride and in later life.

Chris

(Sources: David Wakefield and staffshomeguard website)

CarterWW1011.jpgCarterWifePortrait2.jpgCarterMiddleAge.jpg
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi chris do you know who his parents were...take it you would like to find him on the 1901 and 1911 census...??

lyn
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Frank Herbert Carter b Aston 1895
parents William Carter and Elizabeth Feeney married 1894 Aston
1901 has them at 274 Lawley street.
1911 -still at 274 Lawley Street
William Carter age 46 Railway Carter
Elizabeth age 54
Frank Herbert, son, age 15 Railway clerk
Mark Feeney son,age 21 this is Elizabeths son from a previous marriage Railway carter.
all b ,Birmingham
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
in 1945 he is living with his half brother mark feeney and his wife edith ...there is also a elsie doyle living at the same address
 

ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Lyn and Alberta - wonderful information and thanks very much for it all. It explains several things which were not apparent to me when I was pulling the article, referred to above, together. I'll now be able to update it.

From your information the Carter home seems to have been Lawley Street for some considerable time. (Is that best described as Aston or Saltley, by the way?) Frank and his parents lived there, together with Mark Feeney, the son, by her first marriage, of Frank's mother. So Mark and Frank were half-brothers. All the family seem to have been railway men and Frank's dad was evidently "Carter the Carter".

When Frank had to escape from France and appeared in England homeless, it looks as though he went to live with his half brother, Mark, and stayed there at least up until the end of the war. (Was this still in Lawley Street or had they moved to Treaford Lane, Alum Rock by then?) It's interesting that Mark's wife, by that stage, was Edith, formerly Edith Doyle and that, living with them is Elsie Doyle who is presumably Edith's mother.

Edith had another daughter, Eva. Eva Doyle had married Arthur Taylor in the 1920s and they eventually lived in Treaford Lane, just a few doors from Mark and his family. We don't know whether Frank continued to live with Mark or later lived independently. But the family ties were close and this is why the three men have been described as "a Mini-Band of Brothers". And indeed they WERE brothers, linked either by blood or marriage.

The gentleman who most generously provided me with all the information on which to base the article (and there was quite a bit more than I was able to use) is the grandson of Arthur and Eva Taylor.

It's great when some pieces of the jigsaw fit together! Thanks again.

Chris
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
chris as we know frank was still in france in 1939 returning to england in 1940 and as there were no elections during the war years as i posted the next available e roll is 1945 so i dont think we can find out where frank was living during the war years...i think the best we can do to narrow it down to when they left lawley st is to try and find his parents on the 39 eve of war register assuming they were still alive to see if they were still at lawley st

lyn
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
On the online electoral rolls:
William & Elizabeth were at 274 Lawley St up till the 1925 roll,.
In 1927 & 1930 the only Carter pair without any other christian names were at 64 Stafford St with William George & Edith Shilton.
In 1935, similarly, the only pair without other christian names were at no 1 court 2 Gerrard St
In 1939 similarly, the only pair without other christian names were at 3 Fifield Grove, Stechford.
they were there till 1947. after that the rolls tended to not put in second christian names so it is not clear if they moved
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Arthur Taylor and Eva lived at 78 Treaford lane in 1939
and Mark Feeney lived at 84 Treaford Lane.
1955, 84 Treaford Lane
Mark feeney
Edith R Feeney
Denis M Feeney ( Denis is Marks son b 1920 and married Mollie in 1950)
Mollie N Feeney
Elsie Doyle
Frank H Carter.
 
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ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Great further information and thanks. It all helps to reinforce the story of deep friendship between Frank, Arthur and Mark. I hope to update the article in a few days to incorporate all this and some other information from the family member.

Thoughts arising:
- Do any of the records give us an approximate age for Elsie Doyle (i.e. mother or sister of Edith Feeney)?
- Is there any indication of the Feeney address between 1939 and 1945?
- The Feeney no. 84 Treaford Lane details (1955) are very interesting. Presumably not a huge house but with 6 adults there, needing 4 bedrooms. Possibly a working arrangement with the Taylor relatives next-door-but-two where there were only three? Otherwise the bathroom queue on a working weekday morning at no. 84 must have had its challenges!

Just for interest: Mollie Feeney was the second of the three wives whom Denis acquired in the course of his colourful life. One of the girl friends who didn't quite make it is the nice Irish WAAF girl whose image appears in the other thread.

Chris
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Elsie L Doyle is Ediths sister born St Davids Breconshire in 1893 where they lived in 1891
Ediths parents were Walter Finch Doyle and Rosa, he was a railway guard born 1860 Glos.
Rosa nee critchley b. 1863 Glos.
Austin 1884 Glos
Charles 1886 Glos
Henry 1888 Glos
Edith R 1890 Birmingham ( Edith was born 13th August 1890 and baptised 31st August 1890 , St Clements, Nechells)

by 1901 sadly Walter was in Birmingham All saints Asylum
Rosa was in Gray street bordesley with her children
Austen , (m Maud Toney 1910 and they had a daughter st the end of 1910 Rosina.)
Charlie ,(m. Louisa Parrish 1907)
Edith R (m Mark feeney in 1917)
Elsie b 1893 Brecon, remained unmazrried
Eva born 1898 Brecon (m Arthur Taylor 1926)
Doris b 1900 Birmingham died in 1901

Walter died later in 1901.
Rosa died in 1923



1939 the Feeneys were at 84 Treaford lane
Elsie Doyle is with them and one entry blacked our presumably Dennis.
Elsie was unmarried and died in Birmingham 1965.

How very sad that Frank did not return after the war to find his wife of 20+ years and his son.
 
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ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Belated but nevertheless grateful thanks to Alberta, Lyn and Mike for all the information provided. It has now been incorporated within the website page (link still as above) and I am keeping fingers crossed that I have got it all right. About the only information missing (unless I have overlooked it), is what happened to William Feeney, Mark Feeney's father, which led to the mother remarrying and eventually creating Frank Carter.

I am very much hoping that further information will emerge about precisely what happened to Frank's wife in all the panic of June 1940 and his flight from France. Some post-war letters from her family (not from her herself, it seems) apparently exist and I am hoping to be able to examine them. After that, the jigsaw puzzle will be complete!

Thanks to everyone. (I have acknowledged the help of Forum members on the page).

Chris
 

MWS

master brummie
Mark Feeney's father appears to be John not William. He was born in Coventry 1854ish, though there's no registration. He was the son of another Mark Feeney and Hannah Flinn (both b Ireland).

There's a death registration for a John Feeney of the right age in Aston, Sep qtr 1893.

John Feeney married Elizabeth Chichley on 7 Aug 1887 at St Andrew's Bordesley.

In 1891 John is a brick maker living at 274 East Side, Lawley St with Elizabeth, 2 sons, his grandfather and an aunt.
 
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MWS

master brummie
Ernest John Feeney, Mark's elder brother's death registered Dec qtr 1893 and his sister, Elizabeth, death registered Sep qtr 1893. Must have been a sad time for Elizabeth to lose husband and 2 children in such a short space of time.
 

ChrisM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thanks very much for that correction and further information, MWS. I have amended the website page again to include it.

What unimaginable tragedies people of that generation had to survive! My own mother (b. 1899), living in central Birmingham, was one of two survivors out of four young children. She didn't lose a parent in the same way but might as well have done. The mother took to the sauce bottle - can you blame her? - the marriage disintegrated and my mother at the age of three or so was transferred to her maternal grandmother in leafy Knowle (which I imagine WAS an improvement).

Chris
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
no chris you could not blame her for turning to the old sauce bottle...how folk coped with great losses i will never know or understand...was looking at a members 1911 census that had been posted last week and on it it said 22 children born alive only 5 living...how very sad

lyn
 
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