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Birmingham Town Hall

Vivienne14 said:
Found this postcard claiming to be an 18th century view up Hill Street.

View attachment 93357

If it was a sketch, I wonder if it was the model for this tile picture from the Woodman, Paradise Street, posted earlier on this thread by Phil.

View attachment 93358

Viv.
Click to expand...
The sketch and tile do look very similar. I thought that the Town Hall was opened in 1834 and therefore the sketch would be later than the 18th century. Very interesting sketch that combines a view of an almost rural street with the classical features of the Town Hall. Dave
 
You're right Dave. Of course, the postcard title should be "Birmingham Town Hall from Hill Street 19th Century", not 18th Century. All the same, I agree a great sketch. Viv.
 
Well if that is meant to be the Town Hall and that looks like a bridge over a railway [?], it certainly can't be the 18th Century! But the two pictures are very similar, Viv.

Maurice
 
Hi Maurice and viv
I would also like to say I agree with you those two picture look alike and that I have a book by. John marks
And its called. Birmingham on post cards they are old black and white post cards and the front cover of the book
It states. The city and suburbs in the 19 the century in over 300 illustrations
And at the beginning of the start to pages it as several pictures of the town hall but none of what Phil as put on also the queering of
The date when it was built and whom by and it was. Joseph Hanson built the town hall between 1834 and the statue of James watt
Was unveiled 1850 and removed in 1970 ,this particular post card as James watt along the side of the town hall and its also shows and states
That he was removed 1970 and whilst behind him is a public call box of the national telephone company. As I have said there is several of them but not what Phil's put up. I bought this book of post card many years ago the oriniginal cost brand new was f2 pounds ninetyfivepence
And I got it for 99 p
May I say its a good book packed with black and white pictures cards , and the auther is john marks an envoironmetal health officer
With the Birmingham city council and as collected post cards for twenty years
The interest originated as a side line to his collection of local history books but now its his hobby
He has approximately. 300 post card views within the present city boundary and parts of the collection. Have been exhibited
At Birmingham reference library and Birmingham library john as won awards for display at the British internationioa



Post card exhibition bipex each year from 1977 to 1980. Receiving best show award 1979
The Birmingham. Mail has used his cards as the basis of several special supplements
Born and bred he his married with 2 children and he at present working on a volume of social history portrayed on post. Cards
 
Book sounds interesting Alan and a great find. The printers of the postcard of the Hill Street view must have made an error when printing. Maybe they didn't think about the date of the Town Hall. The people in the picture don't look 18th century either. So think it must have been a printing error. Viv.
 
Hi viv,
I do not think they made an error because as you travelled through the book it covers a lot of subjects and areas of Birmingham
And also it also gives you the post cards of private company's of the tested years of Birmingham some are well k own company's and brewers
There are some of Joseph Chamberlain and also on each one it telsyou how many are in a set
The one ofchaberlin as a set of six and tells you of the name of the in divisional company that made them
Its a collection of variety companies
But I am trying to be breife but as I was just saying going through the book you get to page 61 you come to what is called novelty and fantasy
Cards so I think what Phil as found are a novelty cards but they most certainly not in this book
There is one with the town hall with a lake around it with yaughts sailing around it that comes under thefantasty cards
And the caption comes with it saying valentines flooded the main streets of Birmingham with water in 1905 resulting in a set of six cards
Titled if Birmingham were Venice
Viv its a great book chopper block ful l and in between the cards it tells you history of certain things about that particular area or the ompains and about certain
Town hals which in ever knew about like spark hill having its own town hall before being taking over by the Birmingham town hall
Viv I know its old but if any help to you the publishers are reflections of a bygone age 27 Walton drive key worth Nottingham tel 06077=4087
Best wishes viv Alan. Astonian,,,,,
 
Oh I see Alan. As you say, fantasy. So the artist might have been speculating about how the view would have looked if the older buildings had been left after the Town Hall had been built. Thanks for all the info. Viv.
 
I have a slightly different etching with some differences and less clear (thought it came fromthis forum but might be wrong). It is shown below and is labelled from where ever I got it as about 1880

Hill2520St2520abt252018802520n.JPG
 
Astonian said:
Hi Tim
Hi Tim and anybody else whom is into jazz as I am there is a band on the scene for the last few years now whom have made a name for themselves
They are called the swing commanders and they have a lady in there band as well
They travelled the breast of the country and appear in stourport country and western festival which is held in august every year
They entertain you and play brilliant jazz music and american style jazz. As well
Best wishes astonian,,,,,,
Click to expand...
Hi Astonian,
Sorry I missed this post and hope you didn't think me rude not to reply. Glad to hear there are still people putting out good music. Will see if I can pick them up thru you tube etc.
How is the Duchess recovering. Cheers Tim
 
Hi Tim
No I did not think of the worse from you by not answering straight away for my thread ,I some times myself get pre occupied
The last time I seen the swing commanders was at thebotanicle gardens in edgbaston about two hears ago they are terific. Be leave me
I have seen and heard them loads of places over the country I recommend you look out for them
Thanks for your wishes and asking about my old dutchess but sadly she ain't no better in fact she his in a bad way and struggling
To get out of bed yet alone standing or working and cooking luckily I have got two great sons to help us out
As I myself is not in the best of health as I have been given the warning I have early signs of cancer and of the lived along with crones deceads
Muscles are starting to fade habit but not to worry I am a true brummie and we are made of special stuff especially being Aston
Along with the summer lane kids thanks again for replying best wishes astonian,,,,,
 
Hi Astonian, Watched a bit of the Swing Commanders on Youtube, great what you can call up on these machines and they really are a good group, certainly more my style. On the Tv here and radio they have jazz stations but it is all that Ping Pong smartie **** modern stuff.

Sorry you and the BOSS are doing it tough and trust that with the help of your sons you will get through this rough patch. Growing old isn't that funny but at least we are still here, must be the bread and dripping we had as kids.
Funny when I look at the map Aston and Sparkbrook are not that far apart but as a kid it could have been another planet. People thought I was mad going to Handsworth Tech and then working over that side of town at a couple of jobs. When I went to work in Gloucestershire I had to learn a new language. Better get off of here before I get one of those Grandmasters or the like on me back.
Don't know how to send private messages but if you want to send me one I can reply pronto.
Cheers Tim in Oz.
 
Was there really a 'Big Guns' Bank? And like the image on the 'Let Birmingham Lead' war bonds. Interesting, and probably very effective, advertising campaigns. Viv.


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The two cuttings below, from the 21st and 23rd October in the Birmingham Daily Mail, show that it was a scheme to sell war bonds (a couple of weeks before the end of the war, which seems a bit incongruous), but there were apparently big guns on display in Victoria Square.

B__Daily_mail__23_10_1918_big_guns_bank.jpg


B__Daily_mail__21_10_1918_big_guns_bank.jpg
 
Thanks Mike. Very interesting cuttings. I'm surprised that such a massive amount of money was collected. Yes, the scheme does seem out of step with the war nearing the end. Think the money would have been used for redevelopment after the war. Viv.


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Viv
The Tank Bank seems to be a similar thing slightly earlier. Apparently , according to the report, part of which is below from the Dispatch of 29th December 1917, on the 31st a tank would arrive at hockley station and trundle through the town to Victoria Square, where the mayor would give a speech. shouldn't think it would do the street surface much good.

birm_dispatch_29_12_1917.jpg
 
Thanks Mike. Looks like a well thought out campaign, even down to the telephone number as Central 2.000.000, which I presume was the target figure. The Town Hall today is, I think, primarily used for entertainment, but it's interesting to see the other roles it's played in its long history. Viv.


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The Town hall, for emergent,,work shop of the world,, it was decided that Birmingham Town Hall should resemble a temple of ancient
Rome, Built in brick and clad in marble,
It opened to the public in 1834. Most people who passed through the doors were listeners, interested in music,speeches and even fiery
Oratory, In 1901 a future. British prime minister ,LLoyed George. had to be smuggled out of the hall disguised as an unusually
Short policeman, having upset some stroppy members. Of his audience
The fine organ in its reconstructed form its greater now than when Mendelssohn himself played upon it in1840
By the end of 1945 this stately and sturdy building had served as the city head post office. (InVictoria Square)
For fifty five years,
Its is interesting ,if fruitless, to speculate how many post cards of Birmingham scenes started there Journey here
Its on record that between 1842 and1914 some 600 plus photographic studios opened up in Birmingham,
NB every man jack of the passengers descending the open stair case of the buses wearing a hat
Best wishes to you all and I hope you all addear to your chosen new years resoulotions what ever you decide its gonna be ,
And the best of luck on that one does anybody like to say what they have made ? Alan,,,,,Astonian,,,'''
 
These were the artists who performed at the 1867 Birmingham Music Festival. And such a very elegant group. Viv.

image.jpeg
 
Afraid not Maurice. Wold be nice to be able to name some of the performers. Wonder if there were any press articles naming performers. We could probably 'deduce' who some of the people are. Viv.
 
I was going to ask the same as Maurice. Wondered if the people in the photo were named. My 2 x Gt Grandmother's brother, James Mackain, who was a Gun Finisher by day, also sang as a Chorister with various choral societies and sang regularly in concerts in Birmingham, in the 1860s. He also sang in the choir at the Church of the Messiah in Broad Street around the same time as this photo. I'd love to see a photo of him.

Judy
 
Viv/Judy,

Over the weekend I'll trawl the online newspapers and see what, if anything, I can find. This week I've been tied up with Oz & NZ research, mainly military, for a friend of my cousin, so haven't had much spare time.

Maurice
 
I think the lady seated front stage central could be the Swedish operatic soprano Christina Nilsson who sang at the 1867 Festival if that's any help.
 
I also think the chap seated middle rear could be conductor Sir Michael Andrew Angus Costa who was also in attendance.

This is a partial list of those involved and some of the works sung and played.

27-30 August 1867
Vocal: Mademoiselle Titiens, Madame Lemmens Sherrington, Madame Sainton-Dolby, Mr Sims Reeves, Mr Santley Mademoiselle Christine Nilsson, Madame Patey Whytock, Mr W.H. Cummings and Mr Weiss.

Instrumentalists: Arabella Goddard Piano. M Sainton Violin.

Morning
27 August 1867: Mendelssohn, Elijah.
28 August 1867: W.S. Bennett, The Woman of Samaria. Composed expressly for the Festival. Handel, Judas Maccabeus.
29 August 1867: Handel, The Messiah.
30 August 1867, Town Hall: Gounod, Messe Solennelle; Handel, Israel in Egypt.

Evening
The first three evening performances were described as Miscellaneous Concerts, including the following works:

27 August 1867, Town Hall: Handel, Alexander’s Feast. Beethoven's Concerto in E Flat. Various songs/arias.
28 August 1867, Town Hall: J. Benedict, The Legend of St. Cecilia. Piano Concerto No 4 in F Minor by W S Bennett.
29 August 1867: John Francis Barnett, The Ancient Mariner. Composed expressly for the Festival. Various songs/arias.
30 August 1867: Mendelssohn, St. Paul.
 
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