Passages, Alleyways Gulletts and Snickets of Old Brum

[Dennis Williams]

An interesting shot of..LITTLE BOW STREET....also captioned Nat Pro Bank...? Shown on this map dated 1904, but it doesn't look much like a Bank to me....

 

[Richie]

According to Digital Ladywood, the site on the corner of Little Bow Street became the long-term address for the National Provincial Bank in Horsefair

https://www.search.digital-ladywood...d/child.asp&direction=1&pointer=5920&offset=0

Banks always seemed to keep the same site through generations despite changes in ownership. Maybe the first ever vaults always provided the core for the business use forever. Either that or they became consecrated ground or whatever.

 

[Dennis Williams]

And anyone know precisely where this is please?...billed as High Street, Deritend...

 

[mikejee]

Dennis
They have this wrong. Richard Charles Marsh, watchmaker: Edward Butler, clothier, Charles Butler, bookseller were at respectively 76, 77 & 78 High St in the city Centre from at least 1880 to 1895 . Have not seen exact period, but at least this

 

[Dennis Williams]

Dennis
They have this wrong. Richard Charles Marsh, watchmaker: Edward Butler, clothier, Charles Butler, bookseller were at respectively 76, 77 & 78 High St in the city Centre from at least 1880 to 1895 . Have not seen exact period, but at least this

Thought so mike....it just looked wrong for Deritend...

 

[Dennis Williams]

St Martin's Row or Place? I thin this is the same alleyway judging from the map.....captioned Place...thanks to Shoothill again...

 

[Phil]

Dennis

From what I can make our St Martins Row was the piece of road that contained St Peter's Church & the Brewmasters House. It ran from St Peter Place to St Martins Place before it became Cambridge St

 

[mikejee]

Dennis
i think the picture is of St Martins Row, but this is not the same as St Martins Place, which is the narrow continuation of St Martins Place, which you can just see at the bottom of your map, shown below. the photographee would have been standing at the end of St Martins place looking at the Row.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Yes...I see now...thanks mike....and Phil....in this pic you can see the Row is very narrow and connects to Broad Street....now I get it!

 

[Phil]

Dennis

In your last photo that is St Peters Place, Here is a map that actually shows St Martins Row. The narrow part St Martins Place is nor named on this map. Here is also some description's of the location from Kelly's.

ST. MARTIN'S PL. (1),
81 Cambridge street to 40 Broad street.
ST. MARTIN'S ROW (1),
St. Peter's place to Cambridge street.
ST. PETER'S PLACE
40 Broad street to St Martin's row.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Another Shoothill beauty...this time of an old fave...Swan Passage and the Swan Hotel....even one from the imposing inside.....would love to see a contemporary shot of the front of the Hotel in High Street, instead of the drawing......he said hopefully...I've included the old one most folk have seen....

 

[Dennis Williams]

And a bit more...the one showing a tantalising edge of the Swan Hotel passage sign on the right edge of this pic of Steven's Bar at the corner of the Bull Ring (before Hitler rearranged the top floors) ... and a poster and an interesting clip that mike found yonks ago....any more info or stories would be nice...?

 

[Vivienne14]

Like the photos Dennis. That's some seriously illuminated M & B sign on the last photo, The Swan Hotel yard seems to have been the scene of a mutiny of unpaid soldiers in March 1795. Viv.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Great story Viv.....cheers....and a bit of a mystery....this shot of Chapel Terrace from Shoothill is captioned "Chapel Terrace, Warwick Street Nos 1-6"....and you can actually see what might well be the eponymous Chapel on the right....? Now the question is where is this? Warwick Street Bordesley? But on maps I can find, there is no apparent chapel labelled...anyone any ideas....?





I'm sure it isn't the Chapel Terrace already featured on here in Saltley.....map by mikejee, naturally...

 

[Astoness]

hi dennis..i would also say not the chapel terrace in saltly...the other photo definately looks to have some sort of chapel there...most unusual i think..

lyn

 

[Phil]

Hi Dennis


Warwick Street is located between High St & Bradford St in Bordesley (see street map). I'm not a hundred per-cent sure that the Baptist chapel on the OS map of Warwick St is the right one because the photo does not match the map. If we flip the photo then it matches a little better (see photo), but I'm still not happy with it as the layout of the chapel still looks wrong. Perhaps Mike could give us an explanation and his opinion.

If it's correct then the doors we see are the back doors of No 5 court Warwick Street, so the court the chapel is in would have no name, unless No 5 court was called Chapel Terrace.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Thanks Phil....bang on the money I think! None of the early maps I looked at showed that chapel...perhaps mike will dig something out about the name?

 

[Dennis Williams]

Masshouse Lane is an oldie...long since gone....the home of the very first Catholic Church I believe...but this pic shows it joining with ...?Farm Street ....?

 

[Phil]

Dennis

What I don't like about the map, is it doesn't show what I assume is the apse on the back of the church and it doesn't show the WT (water tap) either, whereas they are shown in the other courts and add to that the fact that the entry is on the wrong side (or has it been flipped). As you say perhaps Mike with his knowledge of maps may be able to deduce something.

 

[mikejee]

Dennis
The solution is on the 1889 map, but a bit over from Phil's scan. Warwick Terrace, with sunday school at end, is opposite the church in Warwick St

 

[Dennis Williams]

Phil wrote:

Dennis

What I don't like about the map, is it doesn't show what I assume is the apse on the back of the church and it doesn't show the WT (water tap) either, whereas they are shown in the other courts and add to that the fact that the entry is on the wrong side (or has it been flipped). As you say perhaps Mike with his knowledge of maps may be able to deduce something.​

mike wrote:

Dennis
The solution is on the 1889 map, but a bit over from Phil's scan. Warwick Terrace, with sunday school at end, is opposite the church in Warwick St

You two can ALWAYS be relied upon to gather the tiniest clues and solve the queries and conundrums with such ease....I take my hat off to the pair of you....brilliant stuff.....

 

[Phil]

Well there you are Dennis problem solved thanks to Mike, As the Sunday school does look so much like a chapel I wonder if it was one at some time or other.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Superb, forensic research....as always you two....and just another little query to test your mettle...two pics from the same Shoothill source, showing the same old houses in Moor Street...Nos 102, 103, 104 MOOR STREET...and if they took pics like that, I just wondered who lived there! Maybe someone famous?

 

[mikejee]

One thing I forgot to mention, which agrees with the caption, is that in 1920 the electoral rolls lists the terrace marked as Warwick Terrace on the map, as Chapel Terrace. So possibly it was originally named warwick Terrace, but because of the appearance of there being a chapel there, was locally renamed Chapel Terrace.

 

[mikejee]

Dennis
From directories the entries from 1850 to 1890 for102,103 & 104 Moor St do not seem particularly interesting , but matbe you can find something

1850
102 Thomas Jehu, cabinet maker
103 James Heape plumber,painter & glazier
103 James Wolfsberg, clerk of St.Peter's parish
103 Black David, travelling tea dealer
104 Jacob Lowe , tinner
1855
102 Edwin Smith, zinc & galvanized iron worker
103 john Badger, plumber & glazier
104 Jacob Lowe, tinner & brazier and Mrs Elizabeth Lowe, dealer in arrowroot
1858
102 R Chapman, carrier
103 John Scofield, farmer
104 Jacob Lowe, tinner in general
1862
102 Barnabus Dugard, harness furniture manufacturer
103 John Scofield, gent
104 Jacob Lowe, gent
1868
103 John Loughton, carpenter
104 Anthony Birch, tea dealer
1872-76
103 John Loughton, carpenter
104 Francis Ridsdill, saddler
1878
103 Chinn & Sutton pattern makers
104 Francis Ridsdill, saddler
1879
103 Chinn & Sutton pattern makers
1880-84
103 Chinn & Sutton pattern makers
104 John Ball ,scalemaker
1888-90
103 Chinn & Sutton pattern makers
103 Edward Collins bookbinder
104 John Ball ,scalemaker

 

[Phil]

Dennis the only person that I know of who lived and worked in Moor St (Mole St) was William Lench of Lench's Trust & Almshouses renown. Who's tannery and house was located there in the 1500's and the street is reputed to be one of the oldest in Birmingham.

 

[Alberta]

My grt/grt/grandfather Matthew Brough , a Tailor born Leek Staffs lived at Hands Square, moor street in 1841.

 

[geofred]

Dennis, would you mind if I took a copy of your photographs of Moor Street. I would be 'over the moon' as my great grandfather was Thomas Jehu and the family lived at 102. Thank you - S

 

[Dennis Williams]

Dennis, would you mind if I took a copy of your photographs of Moor Street. I would be 'over the moon' as my great grandfather was Thomas Jehu and the family lived at 102. Thank you - S

Of course not! Feel free geofred...they are from the Shoothill site...I did not take them! Honest miss...

and thanks mike...it was just a thought...but fascinating list of our ancestral working past!

 

[Dennis Williams]

And todays conundrum...POTTER STREET....now under Aston University...this pic shows the new fire station building....presumably before the Huge one....??