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Passages, Alleyways Gulletts and Snickets of Old Brum

I don't think the Stork Hotel was ever renamed as both the earlier hotel on Old Square and the later replacement built in the 1880's during the remodelling of Corporation Street were called The Stork as can be seen here.
 

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The earlier photo of the Stork Hotel with a stage coach is brilliant, but must have been reconstructed I dout if any original stagecoaches would have been photographed.Paul
 
The photograph looks late 1850s with the stove-pipe hats. Yes, the stage coach could be from an earlier period. I counted 1 lady and over 20 men. Perhaps it was a stage coach enthusiast's rally. Dave
 
I think the 'stagecoach' is genuine lads....they were about up to the late nineteenth century for sure...here's one dated 1890 in Harborne High Street.....Annie Oakley is riding shotgun..?


Harborne 1890 Stagecoach.jpg
 
Astonian said:
Hi Phil, yes that's the one Clive passage I forgot to mention the name I think last night on the thread about nameing Clive passage
I was reading about it and it dawned on me about where it was because as a youngen,
Comes body whom I was with on a particular Sunday afternoon in the early fifties as we was walking down great Charles street
Whom knew of the history and this story came back to me last night and that's how I came to pin point the place and postion of the metal plaque
That was place just below the actual borders of the bridge and there was a gap between the railway bridge and a building they built obvisiuosly
In the fortys that seperated the sign and some time around the 1953/5 period it was removed
That's how I was to say exactly the spot the plaque was and it was Clive passage its also written in the books about the birth of snow hill station
And the creationing of the station which I left out
Phil many thanks for confirming it when recalling all these grand building of that period its a shame to she them all destroyed
I have loads of books with all these building from 1700 s though the periods up until today's building
There is still area streets and roads and areas that have not changed around the centre of building like around the courts and various other places
But I surprise in given time they will all go. What's the word they say its progress ah hum. Bug
Have a good day best wishes Alan. ,,,,,,,Astonian,,,,,,
Click to expand...


There is some interesting stuff on this public hanging here Alan...https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=33901&highlight=Public+Hanging+Plaque ..with some lovely photos by Ell Brown..and one of Clive Passage for you....

Clive Passage.jpg
4144851311_c8c93a3b3d_z.jpg
 
mikejee said:
there only seems one person in the 1891 census who fits Tavolieri, and that is Antonio Tableari, organ grinder, who lodged with Dominic Diblicata, ice cream vendor at 5 bordesley St. The large scale c1889 map and smaller scale c1890 map does not show an entry by the house, but the c 1905 map does, as shown below (no 5 in red). there may have been some alterations between the nominally c1889 (which might have been as early as 1884) and the photo. There are also other changes around that part of the map also.

map_c_1905___west_end_bordesley_st_showing_no_5_in_red.jpg
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Many thanks once again for your amazing research skills mike....what would we do without you!? Bordesley Street? Didn't Alan have a pub or cafe there on the corner once...?
 
Aidan said:
Bath Passage is now somewhere in China Town - but does anyone have an early photo of the place please?
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A plea from 2011....seek and ye shall find Williams....dadaa.....doing up the sewers, but better than nothing....map would be useful though mike..?


Bath Passage sewering ops copy.jpg
 
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Hi Dennis
Many thanks for your great reply you have not only given me a picture of Clive passage which by incidental may I have I have another one in a different
Shot and a man walking down, but also den, you are a great star because not only you have given me a glee of happiness
With your picture of Clive passage included is my uncles shop and family treasure of just one of my grand father's brother
Arther, jelf, coffee shop chain my grand parents had a chain of them all around the city at one time and in the underlining districts
Of Birmingham along with the high society catureing business for the wealthy people they also done the big do,s
For the city town hall and counci house members and council government functions
Along with what was the telephone GPO from those early years right up until the fifths when they all started to pass away
Except for two of them my grand father and his sister ivy she went into the eighty period and Ernie my grand father died in 1969
But it was my grand mother whom was the brains behind the bussines when she died in 1953 at new canal street on the corner of bordesly street
Number 1 new canal street tavorias lived a couple of doors away when growing up I spent time in there and oftwn mention ion the Italians ice cream
As the jelfs new everybody because of there positions in brum includind the start of the housing department first set up was bush house
One of them and there wife was one of the first of staff to be involved with housing which was George William the Commy
Whom stood in brum for many years he died last year in his 99 years and weeks away from his queens. Telegram
Farther had the shops all over the city necnells Aston Shockley you named it they was there Tyburn red by the Dunlop
A lot of people of today do not and did not know what they was behind the scenes another one was charles henry another big player with farther
They was involved with the courts and jurriors for special cases and sent people to jail and one case to the gallows
They was a secretive family and they was fore masdons of a masons going back to the 17 the century and there long family history
But sadly the re is very few people alive today to recall them I have met the of one or two whom have still not a memory recalls the jelfs empire
They supplied brum with provisions on the black market prices during the war that info, came from my mother whom was the only child
To Berta Hinton her father was a police officer and and her father third inline brother Ernest held she told me of her life many many times
But yes back to your qjestion there place was number 1 bordesly street on the very corner of bordesly street and it had in those days a fire stand with alittle hammer inside and you had to smash the glass for the fire brigade which in those dasys would have been at Costa greethanks again Dennis
For that picture I never seen that one of our coffee shop on photo
But I do know before the changing front of snow hill and the disappearing of the passage partners coffee shop remained there until the mid fifths before
Ccolmore street and the general cleance from there was in the fifths when all those shops was cleared away
Best wishes Alan!,,,Astonian,,,,,,
 
Hi Dennis
Image only just seen the plaque and read it closely after all these years but after seeing your the picture you put on regarding Clive place
And seeing my uncles shop of arthur held and being close to the scene and seeing it said a police officer and my grand father was a police officie
During these periods in the city and knowing that I learnt from central library records that Arthur and his brother and his brother was Charles henry
Jelf,,,, was special jurriors in thous years for the serous criminal court cases for case of such as this
I presume they were the foremen of jurriors in those days and may be they played apart in his sentenced and I wonder if it was judge Jelf,,,,,
Whom played the shot on the hanging sentence as it was Judge ,held sent William Arnold to The Gallows for murder of his wife
Its made me think about this subject now it was serving uncle George business just yards from the scene and leanining of there postion
In our society made myself was he or not was he many thanks Dennis Alan,,,Astonian,,,,
 
Astonian said:
Hi Dennis
Many thanks for your great reply you have not only given me a picture of Clive passage which by incidental may I have I have another one in a different
Shot and a man walking down, but also den, you are a great star because not only you have given me a glee of happiness
With your picture of Clive passage included is my uncles shop and family treasure of just one of my grand father's brother
Arther, jelf, coffee shop chain my grand parents had a chain of them all around the city at one time and in the underlining districts
Of Birmingham along with the high society catureing business for the wealthy people they also done the big do,s
For the city town hall and counci house members and council government functions
Along with what was the telephone GPO from those early years right up until the fifths when they all started to pass away
Except for two of them my grand father and his sister ivy she went into the eighty period and Ernie my grand father died in 1969
But it was my grand mother whom was the brains behind the bussines when she died in 1953 at new canal street on the corner of bordesly street
Number 1 new canal street tavorias lived a couple of doors away when growing up I spent time in there and oftwn mention ion the Italians ice cream
As the jelfs new everybody because of there positions in brum includind the start of the housing department first set up was bush house
One of them and there wife was one of the first of staff to be involved with housing which was George William the Commy
Whom stood in brum for many years he died last year in his 99 years and weeks away from his queens. Telegram
Farther had the shops all over the city necnells Aston Shockley you named it they was there Tyburn red by the Dunlop
A lot of people of today do not and did not know what they was behind the scenes another one was charles henry another big player with farther
They was involved with the courts and jurriors for special cases and sent people to jail and one case to the gallows
They was a secretive family and they was fore masdons of a masons going back to the 17 the century and there long family history
But sadly the re is very few people alive today to recall them I have met the of one or two whom have still not a memory recalls the jelfs empire
They supplied brum with provisions on the black market prices during the war that info, came from my mother whom was the only child
To Berta Hinton her father was a police officer and and her father third inline brother Ernest held she told me of her life many many times
But yes back to your qjestion there place was number 1 bordesly street on the very corner of bordesly street and it had in those days a fire stand with alittle hammer inside and you had to smash the glass for the fire brigade which in those dasys would have been at Costa greethanks again Dennis
For that picture I never seen that one of our coffee shop on photo
But I do know before the changing front of snow hill and the disappearing of the passage partners coffee shop remained there until the mid fifths before
Ccolmore street and the general cleance from there was in the fifths when all those shops was cleared away
Best wishes Alan!,,,Astonian,,,,,,
Click to expand...

I always knew and said that you were Brummie Royalty alan my dear friend! Fantastic family history...for which you are rightly proud....you should write a book mate1...it might take several volumes from all the lovely stories you have graced us with on here...I salute you Sir! Get cracking!
 
DavidGrain said:
Sorry Dennis that is a horse bus not a stage coach. Stage coaches were killed off by the railways.
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I would think that a stagecoach would have a pair of horses-maybe two pairs-with passengers facing both ways on top and inside. A horse bus would have only one nag on the front and all the passengers facing the same way.
10925385a.jpg


Courtesy of Mary Evans heres a coach outward bound to London at the Woodman Inn in Highgate Date c.1830
 
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Dennis
I would think the picture was looking towards Suffolk place,or at least that is what it was called around 1952. This would, I think make the building the Alexandria theatre?
 
mikejee said:
Dennis
I would think the picture was looking towards Suffolk place,or at least that is what it was called around 1952. This would, I think make the building the Alexandria theatre?
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Great, thanks mike...thought it was...and may I reprise one of your maps of the area from the original post mentioned above, that you followed up concerning Green's Village? And some text from me and you concerning same....just for added interest in that area....which I had forgotten about....!

"The exact extent of green's village is a bit obscure. It was finally demolished in may 1899, being the "Irish area", and rather notorious. The 1889 map below shows it, but here it is not connected to John Bright St (the wide street going down the middle), although it is on the photograph. we must assume that in earlier times it joined John Bright St with a kink (as in the photo), approximately as shown in red. The matter is complicated by the 1839 map, which shows a row of houses (approximately in the blue area ) marked Greens village, before John Bright St existed. so it looks as if, at one time, Green's village ran from Hill St almost to Suffolk St.
Mike"


That's tremendous Mike, knew you would come through. In the 1861 Census there were 42 dwellings listed in Green's Village, and most of them were inhabitants from Ireland. The Census entry before No 1 Green's Village is 155 Hill Street (Tonks Street that was), so I guess you are right and Green's Village did join up with Hill Street, in 1861 at least. The Irish community were obviously well served by the St Jude's Schools, nicely shown in your map, and St Jude's Church, also nicely depicted and described in Jules post 192…


Greens Village Map 1899 Beak St .jpg John Bright St Navigation St 1888.jpg
 
Dennis

In this photo taken by John Ball, it seems we are looking at the same building at the end of Beak Street. He describes the photo as "Beak Street, viewed from Suffolk Passage (1963)".
 

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Another intriguing old inhabitant of Bridge Street, in the canal complex round the old Wharf....Boatmen's Hall...which was new to me....and which I looked up, and got the following from mikejee (as per) and the great Peter Walker, from this site....

1940 Kellys Directory

Bridge Street (296 Broad Street to Worcester Wharf)

Air Raid Precautions (Wardens' Post)
Pearce & Cutler Glass
Birmingham Central Tech College extension
Incorporated Seamens' & Boatmens' Friendly Society
Boatmens' Mission Hall
---- here is Holliday Street
------South Side
Wm. Hy. Westwood Iron & Steel Planer
Marshall & Sons & Co. Metal Casement Makers
T J Graham & Sons Ltd Whiting Mfrs
The Cement Marketing Co
Severn & Canal Carrying Co Ltd
National Ass. of Canal Carriers
Williams & Farmer Timber Merchants

from mikejee

Re: Bridge Street in Town
I remember the Boatmen's Mission Hall, down on the left from Broad Street, backing on to the canal for obvious reasons. Once a month the Brum branch of the Tram Nutters group (Light Railway Transport League, it was called then) hired the hall for an evening meeting, and from late 1947 I used to go in my school blazer, to hear talks on the tramways of Portsmouth, Coventry, Walsall and suchlike. It was a dark, cold and dingy place with an awful stale smell, and I especially remember the epidiascope which was used to project the pictures on a screen. This made so much noise that you couldn't hear thye speaker, and if he left a picture under the lamp for more than a couple of minutes it would start to singe.
I believe the Mission did good work in teaching the boat kids how to read, write and count, which they would get anywhere else.

from Peter Walker


s Hall copy.jpgs Hall Map Bridge Street 1937 copy.jpg
 
Does anyone know of the reason for the alley way off steelhouse lane between the police station buildings (opposite the Children's Hospital). When I worked at BCH I used it as a short cut a few times but found it a bit creepy, kept looking over my shoulder! Must be some history there...................
Katrina
 
Phil said:
Dennis

In this photo taken by John Ball, it seems we are looking at the same building at the end of Beak Street. He describes the photo as "Beak Street, viewed from Suffolk Passage (1963)".
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Cheers Phil...but I like this one better...! 2009...Google view....


Beak Street 2009 .jpg
 
Katrina said:
Does anyone know of the reason for the alley way off steelhouse lane between the police station buildings (opposite the Children's Hospital). When I worked at BCH I used it as a short cut a few times but found it a bit creepy, kept looking over my shoulder! Must be some history there...................
Katrina
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You must mean Coleridge Passage Katrina....? Named after His Honour Judge David Coleridge....


Coleridge Passage.jpg
 
Blimey...another new one...this is getting embarrassing...BRASS STREET....any ideas where this was chaps and chapesses..?

Brass St Nos 6 7 10 and 11 copy 2.jpg
Brass St Nos 6, 7, and 10



Brass Street 1-3 copy.jpg
Brass St Nos 1 to 3
 
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