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They Were Caught In Our Old Street Pics...
- Thread starter oldMohawk
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The ladies look like they're using their prams to sell their wares from. Ingenious, a mobile shop! Like this photo very much. You can almost hear the hustle and the bustle, as well as the ladies voices drawing attention to what they've got for sale. Viv.
the smiths
master brummie
Great photo was The Drovers Arms in the Bullring?
oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
There is a 1970s photo of the pub in the forum link below and some discussion about its location in posts following ...
Drovers Arms in the 1970s
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the smiths
master brummie
Thank you oldMohawk for the link very interesting article.......
The Drovers is on the corner of Bradford St. and Smithfield St. and the pram is standing right at the spot where the bridge over the moat to the Manor House was...the moat having been filled in. The tower seems to be in Bradford St. There does not seem to be any tram rails in the photo and if that is the case the date would be before steam trams in that location anyway. At least that is what I believe.
Map link :https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10098&ox=2508&oy=2323&zm=1&czm=1&x=401&y=393
Map link :https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10098&ox=2508&oy=2323&zm=1&czm=1&x=401&y=393
HI RUPERT ;
At that particular area and that period there wa no trams and etc running through that section never no tram lines either
and if you came out of the old orinional whole sale market hall in that period you would have to fight your way through the crowds
to walk across to get in the drovers market ; it was really buzzing ;it was worse than trying to jump into the london under ground tube
train at its peak time and it was rich picking for the old pick pockets i can tell you
you would be rubbing your shoulders and body to work your way throgh the crowds just like a foot ball match
also like a car boots sales where you had the old true booter at one end of a field and the other end of a field themarket trader ;
like old jamica row and bromsgrove street which incurred the old rag alley selling lace and things along with the old soldiers whom got
wounded in the war ; lost sight ; lost leg and limbs ladies selling the old brown carrier bags and the war heros either playing the mouthh organ
or standing there with a tray around his neck on string seling box of matches for the penny there was loads of these por people
i liked the photo that mike put up of the old bradford arms as i used to go there myself for the beer and jazz and of course my old friend john cole whom did in his ay day owned a couple of pubs around the bull ring many many years ago; along with the bradford arms
i recall these quite vividly and on a sunday morning or even at the end of the day scouring around the gates of the oldmarket hall
when and where all traders kept the wares in that big builklding friut and veg and fish ; and meats and flowers there used to be under ground storage for some traders around jamica row you wouldfind spec apples or old mr pykes bannanas left and locked out side the gates
he had another section across the rd from the bull ring just over the traffic lights on meriden street which runs along and changed to new cannal street that was is main office and ware house as soon they came to the birmingham market then transfered across to the oldmarket whole sale building ;
have a nice day best wishes Astonian;;;
At that particular area and that period there wa no trams and etc running through that section never no tram lines either
and if you came out of the old orinional whole sale market hall in that period you would have to fight your way through the crowds
to walk across to get in the drovers market ; it was really buzzing ;it was worse than trying to jump into the london under ground tube
train at its peak time and it was rich picking for the old pick pockets i can tell you
you would be rubbing your shoulders and body to work your way throgh the crowds just like a foot ball match
also like a car boots sales where you had the old true booter at one end of a field and the other end of a field themarket trader ;
like old jamica row and bromsgrove street which incurred the old rag alley selling lace and things along with the old soldiers whom got
wounded in the war ; lost sight ; lost leg and limbs ladies selling the old brown carrier bags and the war heros either playing the mouthh organ
or standing there with a tray around his neck on string seling box of matches for the penny there was loads of these por people
i liked the photo that mike put up of the old bradford arms as i used to go there myself for the beer and jazz and of course my old friend john cole whom did in his ay day owned a couple of pubs around the bull ring many many years ago; along with the bradford arms
i recall these quite vividly and on a sunday morning or even at the end of the day scouring around the gates of the oldmarket hall
when and where all traders kept the wares in that big builklding friut and veg and fish ; and meats and flowers there used to be under ground storage for some traders around jamica row you wouldfind spec apples or old mr pykes bannanas left and locked out side the gates
he had another section across the rd from the bull ring just over the traffic lights on meriden street which runs along and changed to new cannal street that was is main office and ware house as soon they came to the birmingham market then transfered across to the oldmarket whole sale building ;
have a nice day best wishes Astonian;;;
Stephen0002002
master brummie
#241 Like your thoughts on the furtive chappy..... his arm is at an intresting angle tho - and I'm wondering if hes resting his arm on something - so maybe he might be standing still ? .... Probably thinking ... if I walk off now ... I'll try not to look too futive 
Its a brilliant photo Mohawk. Its a pity you dont see prams like that anymore. I guess Buggies are no where near as good for pram boot sales.
Its a brilliant photo Mohawk. Its a pity you dont see prams like that anymore. I guess Buggies are no where near as good for pram boot sales.
I can't locate the tower on the 1890 map link. You would have thought that it would have stood out. It's gone now and the area is hardly recognisable...it all might never have been. Still I think that the tower was around untill fairly recently. Sherlock Street on the map link was pretty much the run of the old leat from the Rae to Astericks/Lloyds Mill Pool and the Drovers would have been built on the fill at the corner thereof. The mill pool would have run down to Mill Lane where the mill wheel would have been. There's another photo that goes with this one and will see if I can find it.
Ok the tower was right opposite Mill Lane in Bradford St. The first picture shows a view along Mill Lane with south to the left. The parked cars would have been in the millpool years before this and the busses possibly where Lloyds watermill would have been.
The second photo shows a larger view of the pram scene from around Jamaica Row. The tram is Sitting on Moat Row (1881)and over the chain to the left can be seen the moat outline...filled in. Bradford Street leads off to the right at the junction.
Ok the tower was right opposite Mill Lane in Bradford St. The first picture shows a view along Mill Lane with south to the left. The parked cars would have been in the millpool years before this and the busses possibly where Lloyds watermill would have been.
The second photo shows a larger view of the pram scene from around Jamaica Row. The tram is Sitting on Moat Row (1881)and over the chain to the left can be seen the moat outline...filled in. Bradford Street leads off to the right at the junction.
Attachments
chinnychin
knowlegable brummie
thats a vincents ice cream van at the back.. lovely ice creams they were.chinny chin
Rupert. you are right that the tower was there relatively recently. That picture was one I took around 1970. not sure of exact date, but the same film also showed the very last buildings left in church lane area of Aston derelict, waiting to be pulled down, so the tower would have been still there then.
oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
The more I look at the pic in #241 the more interesting it seems. The position of the baby carriage in the foreground seems unusual, why isn't it being used as a work surface like the other baby carriage just visible in front of the little girl. The design of the baby carriage is very elaborate, delicate wrought-iron wheels so large they overlap, and a quite complicated frame. I now notice the only man in the pic is looking at something the women on the left are looking at.....
Mike, did not know it was yours, anyway I just re-post the ones I have from here and remember about and think may be relevant. This area is ground zero for Brum and some newer members may not have seen these photo's and maybe won't because of the wipe out. Some may be interested.
Mohawk, there is a lady who seems to be holding a child in the picture; so maybe the carriage belongs to her. If there are no tram lines there...it must be pre 1881 since the larger scene is dated 1881.
Mohawk, there is a lady who seems to be holding a child in the picture; so maybe the carriage belongs to her. If there are no tram lines there...it must be pre 1881 since the larger scene is dated 1881.
Re post 93.
The lady Flower seller holding the bunch of flowers in her hand facing the camera, opposite Snow Hill Station, was my mothers cousin, Mrs Joan King, nee Burton, the man next to her is her brother Charlie Burton, they worked together for many years on that same pitch in Colmore Row, standing in the open air come rain or shine.
A great Birmingham character and a lovely lady, Joan died in 2003 and is still sadly missed.
Smiler
The lady Flower seller holding the bunch of flowers in her hand facing the camera, opposite Snow Hill Station, was my mothers cousin, Mrs Joan King, nee Burton, the man next to her is her brother Charlie Burton, they worked together for many years on that same pitch in Colmore Row, standing in the open air come rain or shine.
A great Birmingham character and a lovely lady, Joan died in 2003 and is still sadly missed.
Smiler
HI OLDMOWHAWK
Just looking at the pictureand the suggestions about the carts scattererd around and the state of the waste lands
it was the early days of the rag alley eqivereent of todays car boots the middle clas arking there carrriges across the way
and going overto see what is on sale and they are wat we call rumergng to buy clothes and ribbons and etc; bric bac dreses
the laies with the prams are selling there clothes for a penny or two
in the early years of the now know rag alley which stands today i can recall old mrs bird of the bird family from spring hill and camden streett
the son in of her in the early fifties still usenig those prams pushing piled high to the market or seling old clothes she also lived around in spring field
ladywood she was a little old lady small in statue and stone death from the war years seling her old dresses and shirts an socks
all second hand clothes for six pence and even less 3d old money ;and that section down by the prams was the sellers of such things to try and make money to fed themselves and it would not surprize me the people of the big carts was proper traders just like when you go to a car boot today
they seperate themselves from the ordinary people we know as car booters only todays trafders comes in big vans
i m hoping to dig out and old cutting from my files in the loft where there is i news paper clipping from the old brum paper within the old jamica row
and as i recall when you was down in jamica row out side the old whole sale market where they kept every think in those days fruit and veg and meats and fish ; from that pint you did see a tower of some discription this might help us to etablish what and where was the tower bt i will be trying to get to the brum magerzine shop in holly lanekings heath at ome point as well because some where close or virtualy as i did request searching the banna ovens
which wa sent to me by a cousin whom our relies was owned by and she is a member on this forum ; but any way i will watch with great intrest on this one and ma be we can crack the mystry of the tower have a great day its gonna be hot ; best wishes Astonian
Just looking at the pictureand the suggestions about the carts scattererd around and the state of the waste lands
it was the early days of the rag alley eqivereent of todays car boots the middle clas arking there carrriges across the way
and going overto see what is on sale and they are wat we call rumergng to buy clothes and ribbons and etc; bric bac dreses
the laies with the prams are selling there clothes for a penny or two
in the early years of the now know rag alley which stands today i can recall old mrs bird of the bird family from spring hill and camden streett
the son in of her in the early fifties still usenig those prams pushing piled high to the market or seling old clothes she also lived around in spring field
ladywood she was a little old lady small in statue and stone death from the war years seling her old dresses and shirts an socks
all second hand clothes for six pence and even less 3d old money ;and that section down by the prams was the sellers of such things to try and make money to fed themselves and it would not surprize me the people of the big carts was proper traders just like when you go to a car boot today
they seperate themselves from the ordinary people we know as car booters only todays trafders comes in big vans
i m hoping to dig out and old cutting from my files in the loft where there is i news paper clipping from the old brum paper within the old jamica row
and as i recall when you was down in jamica row out side the old whole sale market where they kept every think in those days fruit and veg and meats and fish ; from that pint you did see a tower of some discription this might help us to etablish what and where was the tower bt i will be trying to get to the brum magerzine shop in holly lanekings heath at ome point as well because some where close or virtualy as i did request searching the banna ovens
which wa sent to me by a cousin whom our relies was owned by and she is a member on this forum ; but any way i will watch with great intrest on this one and ma be we can crack the mystry of the tower have a great day its gonna be hot ; best wishes Astonian
It seems that the Manor House moat was filled in, in 1815; so it took quite a while before the Smithfield Market was built on the site. All of which might put to question...the fact that the site was levelled to build Smithfield. So it would have been like the flattened bombed building sites that we would have played on....Hmmm for fifty years or more. Come to think about it, the bombed buildings seemed to be around for ever too. Things did not happen fast in the second city. I suspect that the moat became an anachronism and a barrier with no purpose and was possibly stagnant and smelly. Maybe considered to be the source of maladies. I suspect also, that the chain fence, which was once the usual Birmingham wooden one, was the perimeter to a muddy messy area used as a ad hoc market of sorts, for years. It might be that one or two of the old Manor buildings remained and were used for some pupose.
If you look at the 1890 map in conjunction with older ones you will see that the roads in that area were defined by the run of leats to the moat and Lloyd's/Astericks mill pond. Even today a few traces can be found.
If you look at the 1890 map in conjunction with older ones you will see that the roads in that area were defined by the run of leats to the moat and Lloyd's/Astericks mill pond. Even today a few traces can be found.
oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
When I first looked at this photo, I thought is it a pic of a special No 8 Inner Circle bus, or about window cleaner's carts parked by bus stops, or is there someone famous in that bus queue ? The footpath looks rather narrow for a bus queue, the youngster by the bus stop doesn't look too happy in his hat, and his twin looks down at his leggings and shoes .... it is a mystery pic !
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The bus stop looks to me like it's been added to the original image. Its position looks very close to the wall and is probably too high. In magnification you can see the marks of cloning i.e a slight halo effect around the sign. Viv.
The bus stop sign in magnification. V.
oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
Hi Viv - I've had a look at the bus stop and it looks ok to me, and one of our members has stood there waiting for a bus as she mentioned below....
That would have been late forties or early fifties I think. The bus looks a bit run down and remember well those old busses leaning a bit in the corners or just from the camber of the road. I think I would be a bit grumpy about being dressed in leggings...the horror of it.
hi viv ;
thats the bus stop just before potters hill i can recall that bus with out no messing
and across the other side of the rd was the little or lower bartons bank which took you down to the hippo;
and the barton arms pub ;and more or less it was the same as it was like the bus stop next to the wall only across the rd there was no foot pathe for the public when headingto the old six ways which was nly yards around that corner of a bend
the number eight bus was so close you could touch the printing company windows as it was pasing almost scraping the wall and the turning was close to the second hand dealers windows as it pulled around the corner stopping at thje jellied heels shop of the well known people whom is momentry slipping from my mind as i am in a hurry to travel back down to brum ;
have a nice day every body Astonian;
thats the bus stop just before potters hill i can recall that bus with out no messing
and across the other side of the rd was the little or lower bartons bank which took you down to the hippo;
and the barton arms pub ;and more or less it was the same as it was like the bus stop next to the wall only across the rd there was no foot pathe for the public when headingto the old six ways which was nly yards around that corner of a bend
the number eight bus was so close you could touch the printing company windows as it was pasing almost scraping the wall and the turning was close to the second hand dealers windows as it pulled around the corner stopping at thje jellied heels shop of the well known people whom is momentry slipping from my mind as i am in a hurry to travel back down to brum ;
have a nice day every body Astonian;
DavidGrain
master brummie
The caption on the original post was
Turning from Gerrard Street to Nursery Rd
bus stop
Bus stop were like that in many places. There is still one on a narrow pavement in Harborne High Street and another stop right on a corner so that modern front entrance buses stop across a side road.
Turning from Gerrard Street to Nursery Rd
bus stop
Bus stop were like that in many places. There is still one on a narrow pavement in Harborne High Street and another stop right on a corner so that modern front entrance buses stop across a side road.
Thanks all, although it still looks odd to me. The photographer's focus was definitely the people. They're very well dressed and one woman's basket has something she's prepared in it, hence the tea towel cover. Wonder where they were off to? Where did the #8 go to from here? Wonder if they were off for a day out somewhere and maybe a picnic? Viv.
sistersue61
master brummie
I reckon they were all saying thank goodness for that, the bus has arrive at last. the children look fed up and the adults not much better!
Sue
Sue
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