• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Villa Tavern Villa Street Hockley

www.midlandspubs.co.uk said:
Thanks Steve - what is your full name and your brother - just to type correct credit and acknowledgement etc.
Click to expand...
My full name is Stephen and My younger brother is Carl Willis. The credit belongs to the whole family I guess, though who took the photo, no one knows! Loving the colour painting Eric by the way! Very festive with the site snow as well. Wouldn't go amiss on any Dickensian Christmas Card!
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, I do not have the 1938 trade directory for Birmingham, a bit of a loss in this case. I have the 1935 and 1936 directories in which Harry Hill is listed at the Villa Tavern.

The 1937 directory records Joseph Alfred Smith as licensee.

The 1939 directory has Horace Noel Smith as the licensee.

The 1940 directory, of course, shows Ernest Thomas Dickinson - he was granted the licence on July 25th 1939. This highlights the flexible nature of the directories.

Joseph Willis could possibly have appeared in the 1938 edition but, as I say, I do not have this directory. They may hold a copy in Birmingham library? If listed in the 1938 edition, it could mean he and Catherine were there in 1937 as there is some slippage between the survey and publication date. What I do know is that Joseph Smith left the pub in March 1937.

So, the possible dates for Joseph and Catherine being at the Villa Tavern can be narrowed down to post-March 1937 and the time of Horace Smith, who was possibly there in the second half of 1938.

Birmingham library should have an electoral roll for 1937-8, almost certainly their time at the Villa Tavern. Anybody going to the library soon?

Hope that helps.

Seasonal felicitations to all, Kieron
 
Vivienne14 said:
Kierans Midlands Pubs link in post #41 doesn't seem to be working for me. Is there a problem ? Perhaps we need to update it.
Click to expand...
If it is possible, a moderator can delete all of my messages as many contain links to my website. None of these will work at the moment as I took the site down for re-coding and image protection. Some info on this topic is on my homepage. But, yes, delete all if that stops dead links etc.
 
I am not at home at present, but previously checked tge 1938 kellys, and Willis was not listed in that one
 
mikejee said:
I am not at home at present, but previously checked tge 1938 kellys, and Willis was not listed in that one
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, just found my 1938 edition - don't know what I have got!! Yes, Walter Broughton was listed. This is, however, useful. If Joseph Willis had succeeded Joseph Smith in March 1937 [verified date] then he probably would have shown up in the 1938 directory. The fact that he is not listed suggests he was likely to have been at the Villa Tavern between late 1937 and early 1938.
 
www.midlandspubs.co.uk said:
Unfortunately, I do not have the 1938 trade directory for Birmingham, a bit of a loss in this case. I have the 1935 and 1936 directories in which Harry Hill is listed at the Villa Tavern.

The 1937 directory records Joseph Alfred Smith as licensee.

The 1939 directory has Horace Noel Smith as the licensee.

The 1940 directory, of course, shows Ernest Thomas Dickinson - he was granted the licence on July 25th 1939. This highlights the flexible nature of the directories.

Joseph Willis could possibly have appeared in the 1938 edition but, as I say, I do not have this directory. They may hold a copy in Birmingham library? If listed in the 1938 edition, it could mean he and Catherine were there in 1937 as there is some slippage between the survey and publication date. What I do know is that Joseph Smith left the pub in March 1937.

So, the possible dates for Joseph and Catherine being at the Villa Tavern can be narrowed down to post-March 1937 and the time of Horace Smith, who was possibly there in the second half of 1938.

Birmingham library should have an electoral roll for 1937-8, almost certainly their time at the Villa Tavern. Anybody going to the library soon?

Hope that helps.

Seasonal felicitations to all, Kieron
Click to expand...
Thanks for all your research. I may take a trip into Birmingham Library. I already went to my local (Ward End) Library and found some excellent literature on local history. It has really given me a taste for Birmingam history as a whole, and have recently read the biography of Birmingham historian William Hutton who had a stationers on High Street. I found it on Internet Archive, a fascinating account of Birmingham around the 1750's to 1800, including his sad tale of losing everything in the Birmingham Riots of 1791. I could go on and on lol. Thanks again. Steve oh and Merry Christmas everyone
 
To give my recent post some context, I post a very early picture of my Nan Cath (The lady in the doorway of the Villa Tavern), and a photo not long before her passing in 1994. In this photo, i think it is a nice symbol that she had a bar! When growing up, this little bar was always a fixture!
 

Attachments

  • nan kath as a child with doll.jpg
    nan kath as a child with doll.jpg
    768.6 KB · Views: 38
  • nan with baby - john i think.jpg
    nan with baby - john i think.jpg
    707.8 KB · Views: 40
Thank you so much, Kieron. There was talk of other pubs that they ran, and in particular, the Fox at Walmley. Is it possible to trace whether they had any other pubs with your databases?
 
I suspect that only Astoness may be able to help with this as it is her back yard. I bought a CD of the 1845 trade directory but Page 84 is blank - I can't believe the page I actually want is missing! Of course, it includes Villa Street - I wanted to see if I could find anything before John Robbins in 1849. You wouldn't happen to have this would you?
 
www.midlandspubs.co.uk said:
I suspect that only Astoness may be able to help with this as it is her back yard. I bought a CD of the 1845 trade directory but Page 84 is blank - I can't believe the page I actually want is missing! Of course, it includes Villa Street - I wanted to see if I could find anything before John Robbins in 1849. You wouldn't happen to have this would you?
Click to expand...

Actually I can believe it - I went to Smethwick archives just before Christmas as they have the newspaper title I wanted to look at, well one edition in particular. They had every edition apart from the one I wanted to see. This happens to me all the time. I'm cursed.
 
www.midlandspubs.co.uk said:
For those who prefer the written word rather than the new-fangled podcast thingumabob - some history of the pub is at :

History of the Villa Tavern on Villa Street at Lozells

History and Information on the Villa Tavern on Villa Street at Lozells in Birmingham in Warwickshire
www.midlandspubs.co.uk www.midlandspubs.co.uk
Click to expand...
again fantastic research kieron it must take you hours to compile it all and this is just one of the pubs you have on your web site..i did not know that dennison watch co started in villa st and take it its the same dennisons that moved to soho hill...also i have no memory of the villa tavern as although i moved there in 58 i think the pub closed in 1960 so i would only have been about 7 years old...dad on the other hand would have known it well :D ..also what a treat for our member steve to be able to see the 2 photographs of his nan and grandad on your web page...hopefully he will click on your link and read all about the pub his grandparents once ran...

lyn
 
Astoness said:
again fantastic research kieron it must take you hours to compile it all and this is just one of the pubs you have on your web site..i did not know that dennison watch co started in villa st and take it its the same dennisons that moved to soho hill...also i have no memory of the villa tavern as although i moved there in 58 i think the pub closed in 1960 so i would only have been about 7 years old...dad on the other hand would have known it well :D ..also what a treat for our member steve to be able to see the 2 photographs of his nan and grandad on your web page...hopefully he will click on your link and read all about the pub his grandparents once ran...

lyn
Click to expand...
Thanks for your kind words Lyn. Yes, it does take ages to compile such a page and now I have started podcasts it take even longer! There is a guy who has a brilliant watch-based website and he has provided info on the Dennison dynasty at : https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/dennison.php I didn't get too involved with the later story of this family as I tried to stay in focus on Villa Street. Mind you, I couldn't resist the speaking clock story!
 
Hey Kieron!!

I am humbled by the amount of effort you have put into this!! Thank you so much.

I have listened to the podcast and read the transcript. You have done Nan Cath and Grandad Joseph real credit here, and I will share the information with my wider family, who feel a lot of love for this line of the family.

The level of friendliness and assistance this group has given me has really been incredibible.

Happy New Year to everyone and all have a prosperous 2024!

Steve
 
Astoness said:
again fantastic research kieron it must take you hours to compile it all and this is just one of the pubs you have on your web site..i did not know that dennison watch co started in villa st and take it its the same dennisons that moved to soho hill...also i have no memory of the villa tavern as although i moved there in 58 i think the pub closed in 1960 so i would only have been about 7 years old...dad on the other hand would have known it well :D ..also what a treat for our member steve to be able to see the 2 photographs of his nan and grandad on your web page...hopefully he will click on your link and read all about the pub his grandparents once ran...

lyn
Click to expand...
You are so right Lyn, a real treat is a massive understatement!!!!
 
knightstorm said:
Hey Kieron!!

I am humbled by the amount of effort you have put into this!! Thank you so much.

I have listened to the podcast and read the transcript. You have done Nan Cath and Grandad Joseph real credit here, and I will share the information with my wider family, who feel a lot of love for this line of the family.

The level of friendliness and assistance this group has given me has really been incredibible.

Happy New Year to everyone and all have a prosperous 2024!

Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve for your kind comments. A response like yours makes it worthwhile. Believe it or not, I don't get many messages like this so it is good for morale. Glad you enjoyed the history of the Villa Tavern. Cheers, Kieron
 
www.midlandspubs.co.uk said:
Thanks Steve for your kind comments. A response like yours makes it worthwhile. Believe it or not, I don't get many messages like this so it is good for morale. Glad you enjoyed the history of the Villa Tavern. Cheers, Kieron
Click to expand...
It's truly meant, mate. Without people like you, history would be lost. This pub is important because it served as a hub for people who did not have much going on in their lives to celebrate. A place of fun, laughter, and probably the occasional brawl for over 150 years, until its unceremonious demolition in the 60's, reduced to rubble, and forgotten, well not entirely. Keep up the good work mate!
 
Before I found out about this knowledgeable forum, I put the photo on the Facebook group "Memories of Birmingham". I did not even know the name of the pub at that time, so i hoped by posting it someone was able to identity it. There was a nice response and I was able to determine it was the Villa tavern. I post here a screenshot of some of the facebook thread, and you may know this guy Lyn, but maybe a bit before your time, they ran the vine. But give a funny story of The Tavern and one of the guys who ran it

1704660109844.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top