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Ison and Rowley Ancestors Birmingham - Kidderminster

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A village called Curdworth - I will do transcripts later and get Lyn to email it to you.
The only odd one is John William which seems to not have been a C of E baptisms..

All these are on Ancestry in "Warwickshire baptisms" most came up on a search but a couple didn't and I had to look page by page.

I will send Lyn all the full page versions.to send you.
 
pjmburns said:
A village called Curdworth - I will do transcripts later and get Lyn to email it to you.
The only odd one is John William which seems to not have been a C of E baptisms..

All these are on Ancestry in "Warwickshire baptisms" most came up on a search but a couple didn't and I had to look page by page.

I will send Lyn all the full page versions.to send you.
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Thank you Janice for all that work.
 
Garry Stretton said:
Thank you Janice for all that work.
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No worries - quite enjoyed the challenge.

A couple of things I came across
1851 census Henry, Emily and Eleanor are living with George and Caroline Holloway. On checking Caroline is the daughter of Sarah Dickson who is the second of William's wives.

In 1861 Emily and Eleanor are living with their brother Edwin and his wife.
On quite a number of the baptisms the surname is spelt IZON
 
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Just loooking for the registrations of Reuben and Hannah's children. I can't find any Rowley births registered with mmn Warren.

Garry - on your tree you says Annie was registered as Ann on the birth records but you cite mmn Castry. I am confused as I thought it should be Warren.
1698949737350.png
 
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There is a serious lack of birth registrations for Reuben's children.

There are only 2 Rowley/Warren reg. that I can see - Mary Ann in 1846 and Levi in 1847 - and Levi is the son of Reuben's (possible) brother.
 
MWS said:
There is a serious lack of birth registrations for Reuben's children.

There are only 2 Rowley/Warren reg. that I can see - Mary Ann in 1846 and Levi in 1847 - and Levi is the son of Reuben's (possible) brother.
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I understand that for children of "watermen" this is often the case

I have found some baptisms though.
Stourport 1856
1698949922787.png
 
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pjmburns said:
Just loooking for the registrations of Reuben and Hannah's children. I can't find any Rowley births registered with mmn Warren.

Garry - on your tree you says Annie was registered as Ann on the birth records but you cite mmn Castry. I am confused as I thought it should be Warren.
View attachment 185665
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Thank you so much Janice. I have the wrong record! Reuben married Hannah Warren.
"England Marriages, 1538–1973"<br/>
citing Digital film/folder number: 8; FHL microfilm: 435270<br/>
{{FamilySearch Record|NKSH-GLX}} (accessed 1 November 2023)<br/>
Reuben Rowley marriage to Hannah Warren on 28 Oct 1843 in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, England, United Kingdom.
Will have to start that again.
 
Garry Stretton said:
Thanks again. Emma and Anne in the same year? My speculative date for Emma is 1852 and for Anne (Annie) 1856. Were they twins or did the parents ait years to baptise Emma?
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I can't better your baptism record for Ann Rowley. I can't get a record from GRO or FREEBMD that has Warren as the mother. I have a full detail unsubstantiated claim as 20 Apr 1856, Mitton at Lower Mitton in Stourport, Worcestershire with Warren as the mother. But I can't use that because it not properly sourced. Does this kind of detail work with what you found?
 
You mentioned "I understand that for children of "watermen" this is often the case." This is the first ancestor of mine that has been a waterman and I had to look up what the job was, then discovered through Lichfield Street that there is a canal and a lot of waterways. Anyway, what is the case with Watermen and their children?
 
Another little confusion I am sure you can explain to me. I am juggling so many people in my head I am getting very confused. I am sorting out my early bad entries in Wikitree as well. You said "A couple of things I came across 1851 census Henry, Emily and Eleanor are living with George and Caroline Holloway. On checking Caroline is the daughter of Sarah Dickson who is the second of William's wives.
In 1861 Emily and Eleanor are living with their brother Edwin and his wife." I have William Rowley (1771-1832) married to Ann Hammonds (1773-1841) and I can remember a reference to another wife. That wife is Sarah Dickson. Can you direct me to the details. Am I referencing the wrong William Rowley? The years with the census don't seem to quite work. Sorry for the mess.
 
Garry Stretton said:
Thank you so much Janice. I have the wrong record! Reuben married Hannah Warren.
"England Marriages, 1538–1973"<br/>
citing Digital film/folder number: 8; FHL microfilm: 435270<br/>
{{FamilySearch Record|NKSH-GLX}} (accessed 1 November 2023)<br/>
Reuben Rowley marriage to Hannah Warren on 28 Oct 1843 in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, England, United Kingdom.
Will have to start that again.
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I think you have the right marriage. I think it is only the birth of Annie which is wrong. The birth record you cite with mmn Castry is Ann Rowley but daughter of James and Mary not Reuben snd Hannah.
As MWS and I have said we don't think Annie"s birth is registered. Nor most of the rest of their children. You will have to go from her baptism record which I posted in post 37.
 
Garry Stretton said:
Another little confusion I am sure you can explain to me. I am juggling so many people in my head I am getting very confused. I am sorting out my early bad entries in Wikitree as well. You said "A couple of things I came across 1851 census Henry, Emily and Eleanor are living with George and Caroline Holloway. On checking Caroline is the daughter of Sarah Dickson who is the second of William's wives.
In 1861 Emily and Eleanor are living with their brother Edwin and his wife." I have William Rowley (1771-1832) married to Ann Hammonds (1773-1841) and I can remember a reference to another wife. That wife is Sarah Dickson. Can you direct me to the details. Am I referencing the wrong William Rowley? The years with the census don't seem to quite work. Sorry for the mess.
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You are confusing yourself. Those baptisms from lyn and my comments relate to William ISON (and his children) the father of Amos whose son married Annie Rowley.
I haven't looked for William Rowley as it is too common a name.
 
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Garry Stretton said:
You mentioned "I understand that for children of "watermen" this is often the case." This is the first ancestor of mine that has been a waterman and I had to look up what the job was, then discovered through Lichfield Street that there is a canal and a lot of waterways. Anyway, what is the case with Watermen and their children?
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Watermen working the canals often lived on boats and moved around so didn't stay in one place long enough to register births.
I don't necessarily think this was the case here but wondered if it might offer a vague reason why Reuben's children weren't registered.
 
pjmburns said:
You are confusing yourself. Those baptisms from lyn and my comments relate to William ISON (and his children) the father of Amos whose son married Annie Rowley.
I haven't looked for William Rowley as it is too common a name.
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Thanks. Confused I am. That clears that up. Another clarification please. From you via Lyn I have Edwin Ison Baptised 18 Feb 1837, Curdworth to William Izon and Sarah. That is William Izon B1799, Arly, Warwickshire and Sarah Cook his second wife? I previously did not have any knowledge of William and Sarah other than her name and so no children. I don't have anything for Sarah Cook. Can't confirm that is her surname. That is what I have at the moment. No death for William Izon. Haven't had time to look yet.
 
Garry Stretton said:
Thanks. Confused I am. That clears that up. Another clarification please. From you via Lyn I have Edwin Ison Baptised 18 Feb 1837, Curdworth to William Izon and Sarah. That is William Izon B1799, Arly, Warwickshire and Sarah Cook his second wife? I previously did not have any knowledge of William and Sarah other than her name and so no children. I don't have anything for Sarah Cook. Can't confirm that is her surname. That is what I have at the moment. No death for William Izon. Haven't had time to look yet.
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William Ison b1799
First wife - Mary Smith

Second wife - Sarah Dickson a widow but MWS posted this suggesting she was originally Sarah Cook. The Dickson bit led me to the Caroline on the 1851 census I referred to earlier.

Ison and Rowley Ancestors Birmingham - Kidderminster

Hoping I am not wearing out my fabulous welcome. My 3rd great grandfather Reuben Rowley is established. I have linked his profile here for reference. I know his father is William Rowley from Reuben's records. Now how to find a William Rowley (and later a Ann Hammonds). The suggested answer is b...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk

Marriage banns were posted here

Ison and Rowley Ancestors Birmingham - Kidderminster

Hoping I am not wearing out my fabulous welcome. My 3rd great grandfather Reuben Rowley is established. I have linked his profile here for reference. I know his father is William Rowley from Reuben's records. Now how to find a William Rowley (and later a Ann Hammonds). The suggested answer is b...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
Sarah had 2 daughters with William Dickson. The 2 Ison daughters with their Dickson half sister in 1851 each included the name Holloway as a second the name of one of their children.

Their are a couple of other relationship connections on the censuses for the Ison children.
 
Garry Stretton said:
I have Edwin Ison Baptised 18 Feb 1837, Curdworth to William Izon and Sarah. That is William Izon B1799, Arly, Warwickshire and Sarah Cook his second wife? I previously did not have any knowledge of William and Sarah other than her name and so no children.
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All the children from William Richard onward are with Sarah. These are only half related to you and adding all them might confuse things.
I found it easiest to stick to fairly direct lines otherwise the tree becomes unwieldy.
 
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pjmburns said:
All the children from William Richard onward are with Sarah. These are only half related to you and adding a them might confuse things.
I found it easiest to stick to fairly direct lines otherwise the tree becomes unwieldy.
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i agree with that jan....first of all research your direct line and only when you are satisfied that your research is correct (backed up by obtaining birth/marr and death certs go onto the extended family...

lyn
 
I do peripherals to a certain extent as they can give you those little clues when things get a bit tricky.

And it might not seem it but I try to restrain myself from posting the more distant info I find out, even when it's interesting.
 
You have created a whole family here for my 3rd great grandfather Amos Ison. When I first contacted you I was lacking information on Amos, now I have at least 10 siblings, 2 stepmothers and a father. Fabulous work Janice. I received the zip file (love the full page images) and have created entries on my software (Family Historian Project) for all those siblings and Sarah. You even did me a table in time order! I get enough on my system before going to Wikitree as they want us to be sure before we create profiles there.

With what you gave me I went looking and I think I have confirmed father William baptism as well;
* '''Baptism''': "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"<br/>citing Digital film/folder number: 004290812; FHL microfilm: 548395<br/>{{FamilySearch Record|NY5D-724}} (accessed 4 November 2023)<br/>William Izon baptism on 14 May 1799, son of William Izon & Mary, in Arley, Warwickshire, England.
And marriage to Mary Smith;
* '''Marriage''': "England, Warwickshire, Parish Registers, 1535-1963"<br/>citing Digital film/folder number: 004290099; FHL microfilm: 198733; Image number: 478; Packet letter: A; Indexing batch: V00731-6<br/>{{FamilySearch Record|XXLJ-RLX}} (accessed 4 November 2023)<br/>{{FamilySearch Image|S3HT-6747-XHY}}<br/>Mary Smith marriage to William Ison on 8 Jun 1822 in Sutton-Coldfield, Warwickshire, England.

Now you have provided William Izon death (1869, possibly reg. Nuneaton buried Curdworth 24 May 1869). Fantastic!

Marry Smith baptism?
* '''Baptism''': "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"<br/>citing Digital film/folder number: 007565469; FHL microfilm: 502182; Record number: 1737; Packet letter: A<br/>{{FamilySearch Record|NV4R-JXX}} (accessed 4 November 2023)<br/>Mary Smith baptism on 3 May 1814 (born 4 9 1803), daughter of Robert Smith & Ziporah Smith, in St Philip, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, United Kingdom.

As I have seen in my other trees, motherhood was a life threatening business. Enter Ann Yates in Wednesbury 1858. Will try to look at census 1861, Walsall under Pson or Pyon. Thank you MWS.

Thank you all.
 
MWS said:
I do peripherals to a certain extent as they can give you those little clues when things get a bit tricky.

And it might not seem it but I try to restrain myself from posting the more distant info I find out, even when it's interesting.
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I guess I agree with you all on research. I focus on direct line and once I hit a brick wall, I take anything peripherally in hope of getting some detective work done. This usually helps. It's what brought me to Birmingham History Forum (through Google on some search for Birmingham area) and look how fruitful that turned out. Once I have a huge family in this case my software allows me to easily make simple entries that connect everyone appropriately. It even beeps me if a date seems inappropriate for time between children, child bearing age, marriage age etc. Has stopped mistakes. I can press a couple of buttons and get a family tree as deep or broad or tight as I want. That is often good to look at on a piece of paper. Software has a map locator for selected entries which I will do in this case as it seems there is quite a multiple generation congregation going on. Then when I have all this I feel some obligation to enter it into Wikitree for distant relations to find and not have to do the work. On my father's line, my grandmother Ethel Mary Blake was already in Wikitree. She brought me up. Didn't expect to make a connection that early. The profile manager (that is what Wikitree calls active contributors), is not directly related to her but had the information and so entered it.
 
T
MWS said:
Turning to Reuben Rowley. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that you will be able to say where his father, William was born.

When the person you're looking for dies before 1841 and they have a common name it makes things difficult. You hope that one of their children crops up on a census with a relative to give you a clue but in this instance I don't think it happens. Witnesses in marriages are another possibility.

I think Reuben has at least 1 brother and 1 sister - Levi and Patience. Strangely, Levi also marries a Hannah Warren. Patience marries a Thomas Allen.

If Reuben's mother was a Hammond then there is a Levi Hammond living in Kidderminster that may be a relative.
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Thank you MWS. I have copied your report into Reuben's file as a Research note for me to follow up. I have found the same, millions of Reuben Rowleys. Who would have thought. Will do some detective work soon. It is my direct line and I do like to get to the 1700s before bleeding out against the brick wall. We now have Ison (Izon), Rowley, Smith, possible Manton, Mary Smith's mother, Samuel Clarke and her mother's line If so many ancestors continue to be around Birmingham, I may have to visit.
 
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