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Winson Green prison

Hi Julie,

Best save the images by right click Save Image, and then you can magnify properly.

Maurice :cool:
 
Julie,

I've searched extensively for reports of any of these convictions to no avail. Can you be certain where he was born, Brum or Ireland?

Maurice :cool:
 
sospiri said:
It doesn't like these files!

Maurice :cool:
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Thanks Maurice, James was born in Birmingham in 1846 and I know for certain that my James Kelly was deceased by April 1893 as it is shown on my Great Grand Fathers Marriage Certificate that he had. He is shown as a Widower too so will pursue who he was married too as well. Regards Julie.
 
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On the 1891 census James' age is given as 45 which makes his year of birth 1846 but the prison calendar entries for 6 Jan 1882 and 12 April 1882 give the prisoner's age as 16.
1598739726305.png
Have you found him on earlier censuses?
 
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The only bricklayer's labourer named Kelly in Bham/Aston that I can see (apart from 1891) is one born in Roscommon who married a Catherine Jordan.

And the only Kelly marriage to be registered in Bham/Aston for Jun qtr 1893 (mentioned post #34) is a Patrick, who is possibly a son of the above.
 
MWS said:
Was your great grandfather Patrick Kelly?
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Yes, my Great Grand Father was Patrick kelly who was married to Lily kelly ( nee Crannage) in 1893, who we know died in 1911 in the Erdington Infirmary. Its just trying to find the elusive James kelly !! I thought I`d cracked it when I found this one in Winson Green.
Yes, I did a lot of research based on James kelly married to Catherine Jordan, but the trail went cold after the 1881 census.
Thanks for all your help.
 
pjmburns said:
On the 1891 census James' age is given as 45 which makes his year of birth 1846 but the prison calendar entries for 6 Jan 1882 and 12 April 1882 give the prisoner's age as 16.
View attachment 147956
Have you found him on earlier censuses?
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Hi, Thank you, a bit confusing as on the 1891 Census, James kelly is listed as widowed , and a Bricklayers Labourer as well as being 45. which had tied in age wise and possible married status as I`d thought. The only possible census result is the 1881 one where he`s married and they have a son Patrick kelly aged ten which about ties in with my Great Grand Fathers age when he died in 1911 aged 41. Thanks.
 

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The James Kelly listed on the 1881 census as born Roscommon, age 34 a bricklayer's labourer is on the 1891 census.

However, his age and that of his wife is wrong. He is living at 71 Allison St, Bham (still a bricklayer's labourer) with wife, 2 sons and a daughter. Two of them - Kate & Edward - match those on the 1881 census. Patrick isn't there though.

Also this James Kelly is alive in 1901 so if it was him then Patrick lied for some reason on his marriage.
 
Have you seen his marriage record? Does it list his father's occupation as bricklayer's labourer?
 
MWS said:
The James Kelly listed on the 1881 census as born Roscommon, age 34 a bricklayer's labourer is on the 1891 census.

However, his age and that of his wife is wrong. He is living at 71 Allison St, Bham (still a bricklayer's labourer) with wife, 2 sons and a daughter. Two of them - Kate & Edward - match those on the 1881 census. Patrick isn't there though.

Also this James Kelly is alive in 1901 so if it was him then Patrick lied for some reason on his marriage.
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Thank you, I will have a look at this James Kelly, the plot thickens. Regards Julie.
 
MWS said:
Have you seen his marriage record? Does it list his father's occupation as bricklayer's labourer?
Click to expand...
Thank you, yes I have a copy of Patrick and Lilys marriage certificate, on this it says Bricklayer and Dec`d ( which I assumed meant Deceased), as on 1881 census James kelly was listed as Bricklayers Labourer, then listed if right one in Winson Green in 1891 as same employment and age I had thought it was him.
There is no sight of Catherine kelly though in 1891.
The only Catherine kelly I could find died in 1886, I have the certificate but she was married to a Patrick kelly, she died at 38 years old ,about right age from 1881 census, so unless she remarried. The widower was listed as a Plasterers labourer so did he change his name for the records !!
Regards Julie.
 
Catherne Kelly is on the 1891 census. She is aged 56, living with husband James at 71 Allison St. James is a bricklayer's labourer.

However, there might be a better candidate. There is a Patrick Kelly registered Bham, Mar qtr 1871 to a James Kelly and an Ellen Rattican. Age is a better match.

On the 1871 census he is listed as Patsey living in Bham with parents and siblings. James is listed as a labourer.

In 1881 Ellen is listed living in Beak St, a boarder of Mary Fennerly with 2 of her children. She is married but James is not there. However there is a James Kelly in the Western Road workhouse, a pauper inmate and his occupation is bricklayer's labourer.

In 1891 James & Ellen are living at 8 Russell St. He s listed as a blacksmith's striker but Patrick may have remembered his father as bricklayer's labourer rather than that.
 
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MWS said:
The James Kelly listed on the 1881 census as born Roscommon, age 34 a bricklayer's labourer is on the 1891 census.

However, his age and that of his wife is wrong. He is living at 71 Allison St, Bham (still a bricklayer's labourer) with wife, 2 sons and a daughter. Two of them - Kate & Edward - match those on the 1881 census. Patrick isn't there though.
Click to expand...
In 1881 there is a Patrick Kelly at Marston Green Cottage Homes
 
Reading this thread with great interest particularly William Allen Butler inmate of HMP Winson Green hung 16 Aug 1916 . I noticed that there seemed to have been slight haze with the correct address the address I have read recently was no 2 Bath Terrace Chequers Walk which is on the other side of Bath Row, I hope this titbit helps
 
Edit. Post copied from another thread. Aerial photo shows Winson Green Prison.

An aerial view of the school dated 1937.
HandsworthNewRd1937.jpg
 
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What’s the round castle tower like building along Lodge Road ? Actually it looks like it’s off the round and there are other smaller ones nearby. Viv.
 
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Hi
Just found out my grandfather Charles Ernest Gough, DOB 05/04/1900
was sent to Winson Green Prison - 3 months hard labour. He was tried on the 11/11/19 at Sutton Coldfield? He died in prison on the 17/12/19 and there was an inquest.
How can I found out what was Charles sent to prison for? And can I see a copy of the inquest notes?
Thank you
 
there maybe a newspaper article about the trial.. to find out you could visit the british newspaper archives online where you have to subscribe its only a few pounds..not sure how you could access the police records...as for the inquest notes you should be able to get a copy of this from the coroners office birmingham but not sure if they are open due to the lockdown so sad as he was very young when he died and must have had at least one child ...good luck

lyn
 
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Hi.

As pjmburns has already written, inquest records for Birmingham are held in the archives of Wolfson Centre, Birmingham Central Library. I emailed the centre to make an appointment to see the inquest records on my great-grandfather who was killed in a railway accident in 1903; and take copies of them for less than £10.00.

I would email the centre, (as I have done several times) to ask about the availability of the coroner's records for your grandfather's inquest. The archive staff have always been very helpful.

This is the link which will be able to give you more information.

Getting involved | Archives and collections | Birmingham City Council

An overview of the archives and collections service
www.birmingham.gov.uk www.birmingham.gov.uk

For information about your grandfather's death if reported in newspapers, the 'Find My Past' ancestry site have access to British newspapers which may provide further information.
 
SouthShaon,

As regards the offence for which he was committed, that doesn't appear to have been reported in the local papers that are online. And as you will see from my clipping below, no inmates' records survive in Birmingham Archives, just administrative stuff. This stems from the time when the prisons were locally managed and therefore there was no central record.

Maurice :cool:

Winson Green.jpg
 
Mercian Liam said:
Hi.

As pjmburns has already written, inquest records for Birmingham are held in the archives of Wolfson Centre, Birmingham Central Library. I emailed the centre to make an appointment to see the inquest records on my great-grandfather who was killed in a railway accident in 1903; and take copies of them for less than £10.00.

I would email the centre, (as I have done several times) to ask about the availability of the coroner's records for your grandfather's inquest. The archive staff have always been very helpful.

This is the link which will be able to give you more information.

Getting involved | Archives and collections | Birmingham City Council

An overview of the archives and collections service
www.birmingham.gov.uk www.birmingham.gov.uk

For information about your grandfather's death if reported in newspapers, the 'Find My Past' ancestry site have access to British newspapers which may provide further information.
Click to expand...
Hi there.

My husband's great, great grandfather was principal warder at Winson Green prison until his death in 1888. I'm looking through various photographs and trying to identify him. Does the attached photo look like a warder's uniform? I can't make out the wording on the cap despite my best efforts! His name was Edward Keough.
 

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William Brown (1826-1903) was a warden at Winson Green prison for some 43 years. He distinguished himself as one of the few humane staff members who tried to oppose and mitigate the atrocities committed under Governer Austin's regime between 1851 and 1853.

As noted by Wendy earier in the thread (https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/winson-green-prison.37104/post-541198), some of the events exposed in the subsequent enquiry were fictionalised in Charles Reade's 1856 novel and play "It Is Never Too Late To Mend", with William Brown inspiring the character of "Warder Evans".

When Brown died in 1903, his obituary was carried by papers far and wide, including this one in New Zealand:
 
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