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winson green prison

tiggy said:
thankyou, I will get a copy of the book, this episode caused my mothers family to disintergrate, nan had a breakdown & went into All Saints for the rest of her life, grandad became an alcoholic & drank himself to death, my Mom was left to fend for herself age 8 & was picked up by the priest whilst digging up & eating raw potatoes because she was hungry, she was taken to her aunts house to live, but nans familiy blamed my grandads belfast genes for Jimmys behaviour & nans breakdown & did not want a farrell child in the house, other brother was abandoned also & looked after by a barmaid. Mom was told that her Dad & brother had gone to Ireland without her, her brother was told Mom had been adopted, neither story was true. They then lived only a few miles away from eachother forthe rest of their lives and only met again last year whe my cousin & I found eachother on the internet. Funny old world
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Hello ‘tiggy’,

My name is Mick Coleman I moved from Brum approx. 32 yrs. ago and I now live in Devon with my wife. Our two girls, with their families live a few minuets away.

My Mom also lives very close. About 2 weeks ago whilst on one of my daily visits I found mom crying. When I asked why she was upset, she told me she was thinking about the time ‘they hung our poor Jimmy’.

She recounted the time Jimmy’s mom (This lady I think must be your Nan.) had visited my Nan’s house in Witton. (Nan’s married name was Wilson her maiden name Gibbons.)
This was after 1949. Mom recalled a few of the sad thinks that had been said on that day.

I know a little of the story about James Farrell. I’ve heard it a few times before and so I knew why mom was upset. On this occasion I tried to change the subject so as not to up-set her even more. However, without asking mom I have been trying to find out more about Jimmy and as a result, I’ve found your thread on this site.

Also if I may it this point say many thanks to Wendy ‘Mistress Brummie’, for her posting 3 days ago @ 14:04 also Shera ‘true brummie’, for her posting 5 days ago @ 17:15 and 3 days ago @ 14:18.

I am very new to this type of research and so may I apologize to all others I have yet to read and therefore not said thanks to here?

Mom is not in great health. Her ‘agoraphobia’, keeps her locked within the walls of a small but nice flat which she rents. Because mom can’t go out she lives with her memories some like these ones are sad, however I know she needs to talk about them and share. I am not a good listener and so I hope others may help us both out.

Today Wednesday 21.04.10.

I have found your postings and I’ve read them to Mom. I asked her if I could put you all in touch. She said yes, but by that time once again the tears were flowing. Mom did go on to say that Jimmy called my Nan, Aunt. This I think was a mark of affection or respect rather than their actual relationship. I think cousins, to be their real. Sorry, I didn’t pursue it.

Mom would like to her from you. We also have a relation who knows very well of this family tragedy. I intend to contact this lady who I’m sure would be happy to help you if you wish.

All the best
Mick.

PS It is now Thursday 22.04.10
Sorry it’s taken an extra day but I had to register before Posting. I have now amended the thanks bit and the relevant times above. I hope it makes sense. And I hope I'm doing this bit right!
 
Hi phil
yes you are quite correct in your statement our friend had been winded up by that story
about the hanging shed. and yes its correct to state it was in fact A wing where the hanging cell
was and A wing is still being used today and also the actual cell is still being used by other prisoners
and the one or two prisoners are not aware of the actual cell that was actualy the condemed cell
that they may be in ninety percent of the serving officiers themselves today are unaware of this cell
A wing was used for catery for big time crims the hardedend crims with a high with an high IQ mentalability
or whom would challenge the system in making a possible break out of prison so they was contained in A wing
which would be a centre point in the prison building of the prison
they was for armed robbers bg time crooks even charlie wilson was held on A wing and some of the kray
gang , before being transfeered to long lartin in worcestershire high security jail
also to mention any body whom got five years or more for crime would be place on there on there
first day of committal for observation on A wing in a cell and would be checked by officiers on the hour
for the first month of being in there they would be checked through the spy hole on the hour
and there meals brought to them and escorted to the toilets but today the toilets are all in there cells
so now they do not have the routine of slopping out with potts Like years ago
After the hanging was abolished the condemed cell was used but not emediately it was afew years later on
if some one had the time to go back in time and look on the micro films of the old news papers
at the birmingham libary and i think it was in around the 1960 -62 the birmingham mail or the despatch
as it was called them days on the frnt head lines on the front page it stated the condition of winson green prison
and the ove crowded conditions and the smell and it said by a certain year this prison was to closed down
but as you can see it never was nor likely to be all they have done is expanded it and revamped it and built new walls and removed the old big gates and they have gone back to the extection of the old ward blocks of
lodge rd infirmry hospital all saints and rebuilt and moderenised there security wards which had bars on
the wards in that hospital had such prison like conditions for severe mental health patients
where th wards had to have the same type of a prison cell door on
the green did expand to these to ease the over crowding
have a nice day every body best wishes Astonian ;;
 
Hello Mick

thankyou for getting in touch, my cousin found my post & I hope I havent upset her, perhaps should have said something, but I will speak to her soon, the incident caused a lot of pain to many people and a lot of untruths were told to make things worse. Maybe now is the time to put those old gosts to rest, it sounds as if your Mom was very affected by the whole thing. Im happy to speak to your mom if you want


Brixham Brum said:
Hello ‘tiggy’,

My name is Mick Coleman I moved from Brum approx. 32 yrs. ago and I now live in Devon with my wife. Our two girls, with their families live a few minuets away.

My Mom also lives very close. About 2 weeks ago whilst on one of my daily visits I found mom crying. When I asked why she was upset, she told me she was thinking about the time ‘they hung our poor Jimmy’.

She recounted the time Jimmy’s mom (This lady I think must be your Nan.) had visited my Nan’s house in Witton. (Nan’s married name was Wilson her maiden name Gibbons.)
This was after 1949. Mom recalled a few of the sad thinks that had been said on that day.

I know a little of the story about James Farrell. I’ve heard it a few times before and so I knew why mom was upset. On this occasion I tried to change the subject so as not to up-set her even more. However, without asking mom I have been trying to find out more about Jimmy and as a result, I’ve found your thread on this site.

Also if I may it this point say many thanks to Wendy ‘Mistress Brummie’, for her posting 3 days ago @ 14:04 also Shera ‘true brummie’, for her posting 5 days ago @ 17:15 and 3 days ago @ 14:18.

I am very new to this type of research and so may I apologize to all others I have yet to read and therefore not said thanks to here?

Mom is not in great health. Her ‘agoraphobia’, keeps her locked within the walls of a small but nice flat which she rents. Because mom can’t go out she lives with her memories some like these ones are sad, however I know she needs to talk about them and share. I am not a good listener and so I hope others may help us both out.

Today Wednesday 21.04.10.

I have found your postings and I’ve read them to Mom. I asked her if I could put you all in touch. She said yes, but by that time once again the tears were flowing. Mom did go on to say that Jimmy called my Nan, Aunt. This I think was a mark of affection or respect rather than their actual relationship. I think cousins, to be their real. Sorry, I didn’t pursue it.

Mom would like to her from you. We also have a relation who knows very well of this family tragedy. I intend to contact this lady who I’m sure would be happy to help you if you wish.

All the best
Mick.

PS It is now Thursday 22.04.10
Sorry it’s taken an extra day but I had to register before Posting. I have now amended the thanks bit and the relevant times above. I hope it makes sense. And I hope I'm doing this bit right!
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Hi Tiggy( feels strange calling you that.) What a wonderful thing the internet is. After all these years we have not know about each other and my dad was living his own lies. After 50 years all the truth is out now and it can only be a good thing. Im so glad we have found each other anne and I feel like ive know you for years and its only been a short while. Thanks to mick and am looking forward to out chat with your family member as this may fill in a few blanks. Dad isnt well but I know hes found his sister and that means more to him than anything. James Farrell ( my uncle) was hung in winson green prison and this is such a shame. I would like to contact the family of Joan Marney if not to say how sorry we are for there loss, as a mother now myself I am unable to immagine how hard it must be to lose a child in this way. Enough of that speak to you soon anne love you always susan.x
 
Posts 6 and 7. Have you noticed every person executed was male - strange not even ONE female !!!!! Eric
 
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Shera said:
i have a book listing the 40 people who were hanged at winson green prison. the last murder was of a thomas bates at his newsagents shop at 176 lee bank road, edgbaston in june, 1962. there is a picture of the shop in the book.

i was surprised that the last hanging was as late as nov 1962. i thought the death penalty had gone by the fifties. i remember mom saying how the crowds would gather outside the gate to see the death notice being posted on the door.
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Although the last executions in Britain were carried out in August 1964 (for murder) and the death penalty for murder was abolished in England and Wales in December 1965, capital punishment for other offences in the UK was not finally abolished until 9 November 1998, and was not made irrevocable until 1 February 2004.

The man hanged in November 1962 was not the last to occupy the death cell at Winson Green Prison. The last occupier was Christopher Simcox, who was reprieved in 1964, four days before his scheduled execution. The first to be informed of the reprieve after the condemned man himself were a group holding a vigil against capital punishment outside the prison. It was clear that the Governor of the prison was as relieved as the invigilating group not to have to carry out the barbarous function of overseeing the execution.
 
tiggy said:
Hi there, Im new to the forum, unfortunately one of the list of exercuted was my uncle James Farrell, Ive been researching my family history because my Mom & her other brother were separated at the time of the hanging & only n=met up again last year, it is a tragic story & we are keen to know the details so that the guosts can be laid to rest, any info would be most welcome
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Hello tiggy I am new at to the forum like you and doing the family history. I went into birmingham history forum and found you. saying James Farrell was your uncle, I new Jimmy I
put a letter in but I think I did it wrong I have a lot to tell you. Hope you let me know if you see this as Jimmy was related to us from pommie
 
tiggy said:
hello pommie, thankyou for getting in touch, I will PM you
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hello tiggy nice to hear from you as I said I new James Farrell he always came to our house with his mom we lived in ward st aston. my cousin said jimmy's mother was
my grandmother sister but I cannot see this has my father always said jimmy was his second couisn his name was Kinght my nan name was Blick. I remember the
day jimmy came to our house in his soldier unform I was 10 years old at the time. I tell more next time sorry taken so long getting back to you
pommie
 
Shera Ernest charles harding 1955 was my grandad I'd love to know where his remains were buried
 
Old Boy said:
Hi Kato,

The remains of anyone executed were buried in the precincts of the prison.

Chris Beresford )Old Boy)
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Thanks Chris are you able to view burial grounds , and is it possible he could of had private burial somewhere
 
Hi KatoYour granddad was executed a 9.a.m. on the 09.08.1955 and was buried 12ft deep in grave number 27 that was 36ft south of the turret in the executed prisoners burial grounds. These graves are all unmarked but a record is kept of where each prisoner buried for future reference in case it is needed. No one is allowed to view or visit the graves and the remains are never released for reburial elsewhere unless in the very rare occasion of being found innocent at an appeal after the sentence has been carried out.You can find all this information here,https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/images2/userpics/10015/150_years_of_HMP_BIRMINGHAM.pdf
 
Thank you very much for your reply an information I've checked out the link thankyou again very informative it's much appreciated.
 
Hello . Mick, its been a long time. My Mom is hoping to find a picture of James I wonder if it would be OK for you to copy one for her if a pic exists in your Moms belongings. I'm semi retired now so have the time to travel, we could meet up !

Many thanks

Anne
 
Hi Anne I'm not sure if you have left a message for mick Harding or some other mick but thought it fair to let you know if this message is for mick Harding, my biological father he passed away in 2005
 
Hi Ernest Harding was my Uncle. I dont know if you will see this,your post is over a year old. would love to get in touch.
 
Hi, so delving in to a bit of my own family history. I found out my late grandfather went to Winston Green prison sometime in the 1940’s. His name was Norman Kenneth Williams. Does anyone know how I’d be able to find out exactly why he was in prison? Are there records anywhere I can look in to?
Thanks
Lucy
 
hi lucylou welcome to the forum...some of our members are subbed to the newspaper archives and if they spot this post they maybe able to see if it was reported in the papers...fingers crossed

lyn
 
This was in the 1940s , but in manchester. Papers only seem to report remand. Cannot find the actual case in march (tried searching for just norman williams)

Manchester ev. News. 23..2.1946.jpg
 
thats great mike at least lucylou knows what normans crimes were and where it occured...

lyn
 
Phil said:
Hi KatoYour granddad was executed a 9.a.m. on the 09.08.1955 and was buried 12ft deep in grave number 27 that was 36ft south of the turret in the executed prisoners burial grounds. These graves are all unmarked but a record is kept of where each prisoner buried for future reference in case it is needed. No one is allowed to view or visit the graves and the remains are never released for reburial elsewhere unless in the very rare occasion of being found innocent at an appeal after the sentence has been carried out.You can find all this information here,https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/images2/userpics/10015/150_years_of_HMP_BIRMINGHAM.pdf
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Phil, with regard to executed prisoners' remains never being released for re-interrment. The notorious A6 murderer, James Hanratty, was executed in 1961, yet although he never received a pardon after two failed appeals, one of them posthumous, his family were allowed to re-bury his remains in a public cemetery.
 
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Big Gee said:
Phil, with regard to executed prisoners' remains never being released for re-interrment. The notorious A6 murderer, James Hanratty, was executed in 1961, yet although he never received a pardon after two failed appeals, one of them posthumous, his family were allowed to re-bury his remains in a public cemetery.

G
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As I understand it, this was only allowed because his body had been exhumed to enable DNA samples to be taken for the last appeal.
 
Yes, I believe you're correct, Phil. DNA samples were certainly obtained from his remains for the unsuccessful Appeal in 2002. I guess plain humanity on the part of the Home Office precluded his being re-buried within the precincts of Bedford Prison.

BTW, I've followed the A6 Case for more years than I care to remember, and have discussed it at length on various internet forums. There is still a small but vocal group of people, including surviving members of his family, who insist that he was innocent but framed, and have been trying to mount a third appeal.

G
 
mikejee said:
This was in the 1940s , but in manchester. Papers only seem to report remand. Cannot find the actual case in march (tried searching for just norman williams)

View attachment 136263
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Astoness said:
thats great mike at least lucylou knows what normans crimes were and where it occured...

lyn
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Astoness said:
thats great mike at least lucylou knows what normans crimes were and where it occured...

lyn
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. I spoke to lucylou last night and doesn’t think this is her man. Is there anywhere else she could look to find his criminal records
 
Phil said:
Hi KatoYour granddad was executed a 9.a.m. on the 09.08.1955 and was buried 12ft deep in grave number 27 that was 36ft south of the turret in the executed prisoners burial grounds. These graves are all unmarked but a record is kept of where each prisoner buried for future reference in case it is needed. No one is allowed to view or visit the graves and the remains are never released for reburial elsewhere unless in the very rare occasion of being found innocent at an appeal after the sentence has been carried out.You can find all this information here,https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/images2/userpics/10015/150_years_of_HMP_BIRMINGHAM.pdf
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Can anyone tell me how I can access the link, it now seems to be off line does anyone have a copy?
 
Unfortunately it dos seem that anything to do with Judaical/police etc in relation to records, in Birmingham there is a problem, I have been trying for some 10 years to obtain my fathers records without success. Paul
 
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