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Where is This? 83
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Jean & Wales
At last you are both right, you can share the honours if you wish, but Jean was officially first. It was a theatrical boarding house.
Me and a mate sat on the wall outside this house one summers day about 1961-62 talking to Joe Brown & Marty Wilde for about an hour in the street. I think they were here to do their first appearance on Thank Your Luck Stars or some other pop show it might have been The 6.5 Special
The didn't have much money because the car they had parked up outside was an old sit up and beg Ford Pop jazzed up with CND logo's and such and it had an old chamber pot fixed to the roof. They eventually got in the car a drove off.
They came back there about two years later and the place was mobbed with fans.
Phil
At last you are both right, you can share the honours if you wish, but Jean was officially first. It was a theatrical boarding house.
Me and a mate sat on the wall outside this house one summers day about 1961-62 talking to Joe Brown & Marty Wilde for about an hour in the street. I think they were here to do their first appearance on Thank Your Luck Stars or some other pop show it might have been The 6.5 Special
The didn't have much money because the car they had parked up outside was an old sit up and beg Ford Pop jazzed up with CND logo's and such and it had an old chamber pot fixed to the roof. They eventually got in the car a drove off.
They came back there about two years later and the place was mobbed with fans.
Phil
B
BernardR
Guest
I held back so Jean could win - I wish.
I worked there for only 6 months and with two local likely lads - one enjoyed the nickname 'Dracula' as he only had the two Wisdom teeth left after he caught a cricket ball in his mouth. When he removed his top set he would stand there with his wisdom teeth over his bottom lip. Before anyone asks he had not meant to catch the ball that way
If only they had told me about the house I could have kept an eye open.
I worked there for only 6 months and with two local likely lads - one enjoyed the nickname 'Dracula' as he only had the two Wisdom teeth left after he caught a cricket ball in his mouth. When he removed his top set he would stand there with his wisdom teeth over his bottom lip. Before anyone asks he had not meant to catch the ball that way
If only they had told me about the house I could have kept an eye open.
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
I tell you what I remember about that day, and that is what nice blokes they both were. They were a little older than us, not much, but there was no side to them at all. They never even mentioned that they were appearing on TV.
We talked more about the car and Birmingham than anything, I think Joe Brown would have stayed and chatted all day, but there was a third young man with them who I am unable to put a name to. He came over and said it was time for them to go.
Phil
We talked more about the car and Birmingham than anything, I think Joe Brown would have stayed and chatted all day, but there was a third young man with them who I am unable to put a name to. He came over and said it was time for them to go.
Phil
bobsummers
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Phil I thought I recognized your THESPIAN tendencies mate!!
Hi Phil
I dont suppose you know the house number do you? I have been trying to find 254 Moseley Road, Balsall Heath tonight on google street maps but it seems that the Sikh temple is in about the exact spot where 254 was and my ancestors lived in 1860's and 1870's, it was known as 'Ventnor Villa'. I am wondering whether this is it, although the style doesn't look old enough.
thanks
Helen
I dont suppose you know the house number do you? I have been trying to find 254 Moseley Road, Balsall Heath tonight on google street maps but it seems that the Sikh temple is in about the exact spot where 254 was and my ancestors lived in 1860's and 1870's, it was known as 'Ventnor Villa'. I am wondering whether this is it, although the style doesn't look old enough.
thanks
Helen
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Hi Helen
I think you are looking in the wrong place, you might find that 254 Moseley Rd is on the corner of Highgate Place and Moseley Rd and was in fact our old doctors surgery Dr Bullers when I lived in Sparkbrook .
Just a further note, I believe Moseley Rd may have been renumbered a couple of times since the mid 1800's.
Phil
I think you are looking in the wrong place, you might find that 254 Moseley Rd is on the corner of Highgate Place and Moseley Rd and was in fact our old doctors surgery Dr Bullers when I lived in Sparkbrook .
Just a further note, I believe Moseley Rd may have been renumbered a couple of times since the mid 1800's.
Phil
Helen
I don’t think you will find a picture, as Ventnor Villa was demolished and replaced with Ventnor House by the time the1890 OS map was drawn. This is shown in the town plan scale map below,and in red on the larger scale map to show exactly where it was. At present it appears to be part of the Lidl supermarket site. For this go to
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=edgbaston+road+birmingham&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=13.179201,38.803711&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Edgbaston+Rd,+Birmingham,+West+Midlands+B12,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.455261,-1.886456&spn=0.000183,0.000592&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=52.455261,-1.886456&panoid=Op8olfNVt9uazsYEFtzQDA&cbp=12,327.66,,0,5 on streetview. The streetveiw site also has a photo attached showing what was there before, which does not seem to resemble the building on the 1890 map, so presumably another rebuild occurred before Lidl.
Ventnor villa was no 254 at that time. Occupants listed in directories were:
1867-73 William Phillips (probably also 1862, but no number or name of the house is given, just a list of names in the street)
1876 Mrs Phillips
1878 It is not mentioned, presumably being rebuilt
By 1879 Ventnor house was on the site.
Mike
I don’t think you will find a picture, as Ventnor Villa was demolished and replaced with Ventnor House by the time the1890 OS map was drawn. This is shown in the town plan scale map below,and in red on the larger scale map to show exactly where it was. At present it appears to be part of the Lidl supermarket site. For this go to
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=edgbaston+road+birmingham&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=13.179201,38.803711&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Edgbaston+Rd,+Birmingham,+West+Midlands+B12,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.455261,-1.886456&spn=0.000183,0.000592&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=52.455261,-1.886456&panoid=Op8olfNVt9uazsYEFtzQDA&cbp=12,327.66,,0,5 on streetview. The streetveiw site also has a photo attached showing what was there before, which does not seem to resemble the building on the 1890 map, so presumably another rebuild occurred before Lidl.
Ventnor villa was no 254 at that time. Occupants listed in directories were:
1867-73 William Phillips (probably also 1862, but no number or name of the house is given, just a list of names in the street)
1876 Mrs Phillips
1878 It is not mentioned, presumably being rebuilt
By 1879 Ventnor house was on the site.
Mike
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Mike
They certainly made a good job of renumbering Moseley Rd as that location must be nearly a mile from the one I gave Helen. As she was originally looking down by the library & baths they must have renumbered it again since.
The location you have pointed out was next to the Post Office on what is now called Cromer Rd, I have got a photo of that location and the building that was there I remember well. As you can see by this photo the house was pretty old and had been converted to shops. This is how I remember it, shops at the front and light engineering workshops at the rear. I was a big house in its day.
Phil
They certainly made a good job of renumbering Moseley Rd as that location must be nearly a mile from the one I gave Helen. As she was originally looking down by the library & baths they must have renumbered it again since.
The location you have pointed out was next to the Post Office on what is now called Cromer Rd, I have got a photo of that location and the building that was there I remember well. As you can see by this photo the house was pretty old and had been converted to shops. This is how I remember it, shops at the front and light engineering workshops at the rear. I was a big house in its day.
Phil
After seeing Phil's photo, I take back what i said about Ventnor house being rebuilt again before Lidl. I was going from the old photo attached to streeview, where the shape of the house wasn't obvious. Phils photo is obviously the same shape as Ventnor House. I don't believe this is was necessarily the same building as Ventnor villa, though, unless the villa was just revamped and renamed Ventnor House in the 1870s.
Mike.
Mike.
Phil
The numbering seemed to stay fairly much then same from 1900 -1973. Streetview doesn't seem to list numbers for moseley road much now. Maybe we are returning to the days of the 1830s , when numbers if they existed, were not used !!. A lot of politicians would probably like such a return. The only number i could find is 519, near the New Inn, and that seems to be in about the same place.
Mike
The numbering seemed to stay fairly much then same from 1900 -1973. Streetview doesn't seem to list numbers for moseley road much now. Maybe we are returning to the days of the 1830s , when numbers if they existed, were not used !!. A lot of politicians would probably like such a return. The only number i could find is 519, near the New Inn, and that seems to be in about the same place.
Mike
Thank you both so much for your answers, I did reply to this thread last night but for some reason my reply doesnt seem to have gone through.
I was so hoping that the house would still be there, so much of Birmingham isn't! It would have been lovely to see a nice property where my much-richer-than-me ancestors lived! My ancestor was the William Phillips who is listed as being there in the 1860's - he was there on the 61 and 71 census, 51 census just says moseley road enumerators schedule 2 so he was still in moseley road and 41 he was living on Edgbaston Lane. He died in 1872 and his wife in 1877 so I hadn't tried to look for the property on the 1881 census. I have traced his line back to 1700 in Birmingham and before that to Cleobury Mortimer and Neen Savage in the late 16th Century.
The maps and photos are really interesting too - I also doubt if Ventnor Villa was incorporated into Ventnor House but its as close as I can get! Where do you both get all of your knowledge from, I am stunned by what you have found out for me!
Thanks so much
Helen
x
researching phillips, suckling, wright in Birmingham
I was so hoping that the house would still be there, so much of Birmingham isn't! It would have been lovely to see a nice property where my much-richer-than-me ancestors lived! My ancestor was the William Phillips who is listed as being there in the 1860's - he was there on the 61 and 71 census, 51 census just says moseley road enumerators schedule 2 so he was still in moseley road and 41 he was living on Edgbaston Lane. He died in 1872 and his wife in 1877 so I hadn't tried to look for the property on the 1881 census. I have traced his line back to 1700 in Birmingham and before that to Cleobury Mortimer and Neen Savage in the late 16th Century.
The maps and photos are really interesting too - I also doubt if Ventnor Villa was incorporated into Ventnor House but its as close as I can get! Where do you both get all of your knowledge from, I am stunned by what you have found out for me!
Thanks so much
Helen
x
researching phillips, suckling, wright in Birmingham
Helen
The 1855 Post Office directory does list him as at Ventnor Villa, but that far back Moseley Road ended nearer town than at later dates, and it is in Alcester road (I hadn’t realised that before, so I’ve learned something new). In 1849, the Whites directory lists : Phillips William, provision merchant, 5,Spiceal st.; home. Moseley Road House while the Post Office directory lists William Phillips at Ventnor villa. I don’t know if the house was called by a second name or if he did move at sometime around late 1848 or early 1849, between the time of the two directories coming out.
Mike
The 1855 Post Office directory does list him as at Ventnor Villa, but that far back Moseley Road ended nearer town than at later dates, and it is in Alcester road (I hadn’t realised that before, so I’ve learned something new). In 1849, the Whites directory lists : Phillips William, provision merchant, 5,Spiceal st.; home. Moseley Road House while the Post Office directory lists William Phillips at Ventnor villa. I don’t know if the house was called by a second name or if he did move at sometime around late 1848 or early 1849, between the time of the two directories coming out.
Mike
Hi Mike
Could you tell me the name of the map that you attached showing Ventnor House please as I would like to try and get hold of a copy so I can mark where some of my other ancestors lived as I had a lot in Birmingham. It would be interesting to see how wide spread the were or whether all of my branches tended to live in the same area. Also I wondered if you had any info on Albert Villa, 573 Moseley Road where another of my William Phillips lived (son of the one previously mentioned) He was there until his death in 1905.
Thanks so much for your help and the info you have given me so far.
Helen
Could you tell me the name of the map that you attached showing Ventnor House please as I would like to try and get hold of a copy so I can mark where some of my other ancestors lived as I had a lot in Birmingham. It would be interesting to see how wide spread the were or whether all of my branches tended to live in the same area. Also I wondered if you had any info on Albert Villa, 573 Moseley Road where another of my William Phillips lived (son of the one previously mentioned) He was there until his death in 1905.
Thanks so much for your help and the info you have given me so far.
Helen
Helen
Both the maps are Ordnance survey maps, and can be viewed at the oldmaps site at
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html You can buy them from them, though they are quite expensive. A cheaper way to get maps from around 1910 or so is from the alan godfrey site at https://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ which are much cheaper, but don’t have as wide a range of dates as the old maps site
M ike
Both the maps are Ordnance survey maps, and can be viewed at the oldmaps site at
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html You can buy them from them, though they are quite expensive. A cheaper way to get maps from around 1910 or so is from the alan godfrey site at https://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ which are much cheaper, but don’t have as wide a range of dates as the old maps site
M ike
Mike, sorry to bother you again. I don't know Birmingham at all well so I have have a look at Alan Godfreys map site and I know I want a map of Central Birmingham. I want to cover Moseley Road and Pershore road also, and preferably Second Avenue where my Mum and Grandma were born and would be grateful if you could advise me whether I just need to buy Birmingham South (14.09) or whether there are any others I would need to purchase too. Will try not to bother you again after this!
Thanks
Helen
Thanks
Helen
Depends a bit on how far down Pershore road you want to go. As you say, you will need the "central birmingham " one, and "birmingham south" , and to go all the way down to moseley you will need the "moseley" one. The Bournbrook one will take you down to second avenue, and a little past it, but if you want the rest of Pershore road, you will have to get the "Selly oak & bournville",, "lifford & Bournville" and "Kings norton" I guess you might not be interested in the far end of Pershore road though, but have included all eventualities
Mikw
Mikw
Thanks Mike, will get the first two or three and see how it goes.
Thanks Dek, we did visited Birmingham on Sunday and drove down second avenue and took a couple of photo's, nice houses! Unfortunately there are not many other bits of my family history still standing!
Helen
Thanks Dek, we did visited Birmingham on Sunday and drove down second avenue and took a couple of photo's, nice houses! Unfortunately there are not many other bits of my family history still standing!
Helen