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Where is this? 102
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Judy
I'm sorry, you must think me ignorant, the photo's were of No 5 Court Thomas Street, another was The Gullet a notorious area of the times, and I think, as has been said the other photo must have been The Priory that the area we all knew so well was named after.
A couple of years after these photo's were taken in 1875 these areas were all gone and they were replaced by Corporation St.
If it is of interest to you here is a drawing of The Gullet that was made around the same time as the photo and another of 1 Court Steelhouse Lane, that I believe was cleared at the same time as Corporation St.
Phil
I'm sorry, you must think me ignorant, the photo's were of No 5 Court Thomas Street, another was The Gullet a notorious area of the times, and I think, as has been said the other photo must have been The Priory that the area we all knew so well was named after.
A couple of years after these photo's were taken in 1875 these areas were all gone and they were replaced by Corporation St.
If it is of interest to you here is a drawing of The Gullet that was made around the same time as the photo and another of 1 Court Steelhouse Lane, that I believe was cleared at the same time as Corporation St.
Phil
Attachments
Jayell
master brummie
Really fascinating Phil. My ancestors all lived around that area at the time of the redevelopment - Steelhouse Lane/Russell Street/London Prentice St/Sheep Street/Lawrence Street etc. All pretty bad conditons I should imagine, and seeing your pictures just confirms it.
I couldn't find the Gullet on my old maps but think it was near Stafford Street/Lichfield Street, wasn't it?
Judy
I couldn't find the Gullet on my old maps but think it was near Stafford Street/Lichfield Street, wasn't it?
Judy
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Judy,
It was that sort of area, Stafford St / Thomas St area. If you follow this link you will find a quite in depth discussion with maps that explain the location.
https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?p=20764
Phil
It was that sort of area, Stafford St / Thomas St area. If you follow this link you will find a quite in depth discussion with maps that explain the location.
https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?p=20764
Phil
Jayell
master brummie
I have spent an absorbing half hour or so looking at the thread you told me about Phil. There is so much information there, thanks for the link. I really enjoyed the pictures and maps, they are very informative, and puts into perspective how close to each other various families of mine lived.
Judy
Judy
Sakura
master brummie
Thanks Phil - hat was an amazing bit of history of the city I had not looked at or even thought about as my memories start in the late 40's. I should have realised there was housing in the city but I just thought of it being on the outskirts starting around by the jewellery quater. I have always assumed the city centre was the public buildings, how blind can we be about the past. A pity that was not part of our education. mo
Sakura
master brummie
This may be going off thread for a moment and forgive me if it is.
I was trying to work out why we didn't learn more about the past as children other than the wars. I think it is because certainly my parents were doing all they could to survive in the 40's and 50's financially and even before that I'm sure. We were lucky and had our own house, dad worked at home as a diamond setter but the trade declined after the war. Other than fashions, dances and holidays in Western Supper Mare I really don't remember my parents sharing anything about their early years or the history of the city. Oh well better late than never!!!!
That is why this web site is so valuable. Mo
I was trying to work out why we didn't learn more about the past as children other than the wars. I think it is because certainly my parents were doing all they could to survive in the 40's and 50's financially and even before that I'm sure. We were lucky and had our own house, dad worked at home as a diamond setter but the trade declined after the war. Other than fashions, dances and holidays in Western Supper Mare I really don't remember my parents sharing anything about their early years or the history of the city. Oh well better late than never!!!!
That is why this web site is so valuable. Mo
Jayell
master brummie
Phil, I agree - this is a fantastic site, and there is so much knowledge and information out there researched and given freely by other forum members. I have gained so much knowledge about my city since I became a member of BHF. It has been invaluable, I'm so glad I found you all!
Judy
Judy
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Sakura,
It gets worse, as I think todays kids are learning less than we did at school. They are being taught precious little of the history of England, let alone something as local as the history of Birmingham. Thats if my grandchildren can be used as a yardstick.
Phil
It gets worse, as I think todays kids are learning less than we did at school. They are being taught precious little of the history of England, let alone something as local as the history of Birmingham. Thats if my grandchildren can be used as a yardstick.
Phil
Sakura
master brummie
That is a pity, at least we did English History. I can understand local history is difficult to include in a curriculum that is intended for the whole country but you would think something like the industrial revolution would be part of history now, certainly in the higher grades. With children from so many cultures in school I guess there are other challenges as there are here. Mo.
Peter Walker
gone but not forgotten
Once I left Hawthorn Road Junior Boys and started at Aston Grammar I lost interest in history lessons. In the juniors it was part of learning about life, but after that it was passing exams, most of which seemed to be about English battles and kings or queens. There was no room for local history, because it wasn't on the syllabus. Later we had to choose between Latin or German for a second foreign language, and the next year which School Certificate (now sort of GCSE) exams we would take. At that stage I dropped all sciences, history, English literature and scripture. A year later I selected my subjects for Higher School Certificate (A-level) - Geography and Art at a higher level and German and English at a lower level. When all the exams were over, we had six weeks to pass before leaving school.
Our Geography master, Mr Sampson gave us a nine-day project doing a SURVEY OF ASTON, starting on Monday 12 June 1950 and finishing on Thursday 20 June. I forget most of the details now, but I think there were about ten of us, touring around an area of about a mile radius of the school, partly of foot, sometimes with the help of a bike, recording the names of firms (I shall never forget Rippingilles) and the different uses to which land was put. I became the mapmaker, drawing a map in draughtsman's ink on stiff paper [both a novelty for me], while others did written reports on the different trades and kinds of housing and suchlike. Another thing I shan't forget was discovering the Retreat, a residential backwater that I went back to several times, because it was a time-warp, unspoiled and so different from everything else in Aston.
Looking back, that might have been the happiest of my schooldays, but for the next two weeks or more, I designed painted the scenery for 'Androcles and the Lion' - a joint production with Handsworth Grammar for Girls, involving jungle, town and interior scenes, as I remember - that was a challenge too.
I was very pleased that the school actually supported my enthusiasm for something which wasn't on the regular curriculum. I'm grateful to Mr Sampson, too.
Peter
Our Geography master, Mr Sampson gave us a nine-day project doing a SURVEY OF ASTON, starting on Monday 12 June 1950 and finishing on Thursday 20 June. I forget most of the details now, but I think there were about ten of us, touring around an area of about a mile radius of the school, partly of foot, sometimes with the help of a bike, recording the names of firms (I shall never forget Rippingilles) and the different uses to which land was put. I became the mapmaker, drawing a map in draughtsman's ink on stiff paper [both a novelty for me], while others did written reports on the different trades and kinds of housing and suchlike. Another thing I shan't forget was discovering the Retreat, a residential backwater that I went back to several times, because it was a time-warp, unspoiled and so different from everything else in Aston.
Looking back, that might have been the happiest of my schooldays, but for the next two weeks or more, I designed painted the scenery for 'Androcles and the Lion' - a joint production with Handsworth Grammar for Girls, involving jungle, town and interior scenes, as I remember - that was a challenge too.
I was very pleased that the school actually supported my enthusiasm for something which wasn't on the regular curriculum. I'm grateful to Mr Sampson, too.
Peter
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Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Peter
You were one of the lucky ones, In my time at school although the opportunity was there to sit entrance exams to gain access to higher education. No encouragement was given either at home, because of the need for you to be earning as soon as possible. Nor was there any encouragement at the Secondary Modern level. You were simply told the dates and venues of of entrance exams and were told you could attend if you wanted to. I'm sorry to say without one word of encouragement.
As far as local studies, there were none in my time at school. Its a shame really, because I'm sure back in the 50's there was a wealth of local history just waiting discovery by the enquiring minds of the local youth.
As for today, my one grandchild who has just left school did just one page of local studies the whole time at secondary school. I know because I helped her. I could have filled a book for her, but she said "No granddad, we are only expected to do one page". That statement says it all.
Phil
You were one of the lucky ones, In my time at school although the opportunity was there to sit entrance exams to gain access to higher education. No encouragement was given either at home, because of the need for you to be earning as soon as possible. Nor was there any encouragement at the Secondary Modern level. You were simply told the dates and venues of of entrance exams and were told you could attend if you wanted to. I'm sorry to say without one word of encouragement.
As far as local studies, there were none in my time at school. Its a shame really, because I'm sure back in the 50's there was a wealth of local history just waiting discovery by the enquiring minds of the local youth.
As for today, my one grandchild who has just left school did just one page of local studies the whole time at secondary school. I know because I helped her. I could have filled a book for her, but she said "No granddad, we are only expected to do one page". That statement says it all.
Phil
Hi Phil
I can echo your sentiments about encouragement at school,in the second year at secondary modern several of us wanted to get on and improve our education so we applied to take the entrance exam for Handsworth Tech.The day before we were due to take the exam the headteacher came into the class room and in front of the whole class said "I don't know why you five are bothering to take this exam,you won't pass as none of you are good enough." Confidence building or what? Sad to say only one out of the five passed.
Regards
Dave
I can echo your sentiments about encouragement at school,in the second year at secondary modern several of us wanted to get on and improve our education so we applied to take the entrance exam for Handsworth Tech.The day before we were due to take the exam the headteacher came into the class room and in front of the whole class said "I don't know why you five are bothering to take this exam,you won't pass as none of you are good enough." Confidence building or what? Sad to say only one out of the five passed.
Regards
Dave
sylviasayers
master brummie
Judy39, my g. grandparents were living at 42 London Prentice Street on the 1881 census which was declaimed as a "nasty, dirty, stinking thoroughfare". But is was also the home of the poorest, many of whom were migrants from the west of Ireland.
How surprised they would have been to know that within 3 generations the majority of their descendants would have gone to university and live a life they would never dream could exist. My g.g. grandparents were from Co. Mayo.
We are indeed lucky to live today when there are so many opportunities denied them.
How surprised they would have been to know that within 3 generations the majority of their descendants would have gone to university and live a life they would never dream could exist. My g.g. grandparents were from Co. Mayo.
We are indeed lucky to live today when there are so many opportunities denied them.
Dave, Only 90 boys from the whole of Brum were accepted into Handsworth Tech each year in the early 50s. When I left GB and came to Canada I was suprised to find that 1 out of 5 kids went on to university at that time here. In GB, same period, I think it was 1 out of 55. An eye opener I think.
Jayell
master brummie
Sylvia
My 2 x gt.grandparents, Michael and Jane Martin (was Gilmartin) lived in London Prentice Street in Court 12. They were both from Ireland - Jane came from Roscommon. My gt.grandfather, James, was born at 38 London Prentice Street in 1847 when Jane was 15! They were lodgers at this house. This was only a couple of doors from where your family lived in 1881 at No.42. By 1861 Jane had been widowed, when she was 6 months pregnant, and with 5 other children to bring up. She later remarried and moved out of this street.
I have read a lot about the terrible conditions of this street, and the crime that went on around there. Must have been awful, I can't imagine how they managed. The photos of the area posted on the thread that Phil mentioned, showed just how bad it was. They certainly would not have believed the opportunities that their descendants now have, and I'm glad we don't live in those days.
Judy
My 2 x gt.grandparents, Michael and Jane Martin (was Gilmartin) lived in London Prentice Street in Court 12. They were both from Ireland - Jane came from Roscommon. My gt.grandfather, James, was born at 38 London Prentice Street in 1847 when Jane was 15! They were lodgers at this house. This was only a couple of doors from where your family lived in 1881 at No.42. By 1861 Jane had been widowed, when she was 6 months pregnant, and with 5 other children to bring up. She later remarried and moved out of this street.
I have read a lot about the terrible conditions of this street, and the crime that went on around there. Must have been awful, I can't imagine how they managed. The photos of the area posted on the thread that Phil mentioned, showed just how bad it was. They certainly would not have believed the opportunities that their descendants now have, and I'm glad we don't live in those days.
Judy
A good point Judy. Although some of us have nostalgia for the old days I think that it does not extend to the horrible conditions of life that existed in pre-WW2 Brum in many areas of the city. I suppose that it was the place that we grew up in and you could get used to anything. Maybe it was not for no reason that there seems here to have been a boozer on every corner...maybe for people to escape the drabness of life in a hour or two of merriment. It was not easy to escape that system me-thinks and by and large it was the nature to be cheerful. It seems to me that many who subscribe to this forum do not live in Brum any more.
M
mike-g
Guest
No but we nearly all started life there
sylviasayers
master brummie
Judy, my g. grandparents were John and Jane Wallace nee Horah, and at the time had 7 children age from 3 months to 12 years old. It is nigh on impossible to imagine the conditions in which they lived. My heart goes out to your ancestor becoming a widow, pregnant, and all the other children to care for, no Social Security then, and probably family members were in dire straits themselves with no money to spare to help out.
Jayell
master brummie
Sylvia, sorry to be so long replying but I've been away. I see that your John Wallace was from Hull, and Jane his wife from Birmingham. Was it Jane's parents that were from Ireland? I haven't been able to find her on early censuses but as London Prentice Street was an "Irish" street, I would be interested to know if her family lived in LP Street in earlier years.
It must have been so hard to cope with large families in these conditions. I see that your John was in the Gun Trade, but my Michael Martin was firstly a Hawker, and then a Brush Maker, so I would imagine there was very little money coming in to the house. My Jane would have had to use all her ingenuity to keep things together after Michael died in 1858, and she was pregnant. She met her second husband before 1863 when she gives birth to another child, this time in Northampton! However they didn't marry until 1869. They moved around the country before returning to Birmingham. He was also a Brush Maker, so perhaps she already knew him.
Judy
It must have been so hard to cope with large families in these conditions. I see that your John was in the Gun Trade, but my Michael Martin was firstly a Hawker, and then a Brush Maker, so I would imagine there was very little money coming in to the house. My Jane would have had to use all her ingenuity to keep things together after Michael died in 1858, and she was pregnant. She met her second husband before 1863 when she gives birth to another child, this time in Northampton! However they didn't marry until 1869. They moved around the country before returning to Birmingham. He was also a Brush Maker, so perhaps she already knew him.
Judy
R
Riff Rose
Guest
I recon it’s Corporation St. Damm late again its best to read all the posts before answering, I’m told I do this a lot answer before hearing the question of is that what women just say?