What happened to the 1964 Bull Forms in the Bull Ring

[Stokkie]

I've written to Historic England to see if there are any recent developments after the media interest of 2015. Will let you know their response.
https://historicengland.org.uk/campaigns/post-war-public-art/missing-public-art/
Bull photo appears in top line of images.

 

[Vivienne14]

If there were 4 bulls were they intended to mark north, south, east and west ? Or were they positioned to mark the key entrances to the markets ? Or perhaps they were simply a decorative feature/trademark ?

It’s not like they’d be easy objects to move, transport elsewhere, or hide/store away. Someone who worked on the site or worked overlooking the site when it was redeveloped must remember seeing them moved or broken up. If moved, it’d take a large truck (and crane) to move them, something I doubt the press would have missed out on reporting.

Viv.

 

[Stokkie]

Anyone know if all four bulls were the same design/replicas as each other ?

I can find photos of two sorts, one facing left and the other right.

 

[Tinpot]

I have no experience of the new shopping venue in the Bull Ring which is now styled as one word - Bullring - and has it’s own bronze bull on display. I suppose a lot of money was paid to create a new image that differs from the previous shopping centre that I remember well. Not too sure if the first photo is a fibreglass sculpture.

 

[Stokkie]

I have no experience of the new shopping venue in the Bull Ring which is now styled as one word - Bullring - and has it’s own bronze bull on display. I suppose a lot of money was paid to create a new image that differs from the previous shopping centre that I remember well. Not too sure if the first photo is a fibreglass sculpture.

Thanks Tinpot. Your first photo certainly shows one of the bulls high on the building. The Bullring spelling was introduced in 2003 with the new construction. You would certainly notice some changes from the old Bull Ring. One unexpected good one is that the view down to St Martin's is now uninterrupted.
The bronze bull is very popular especially with tourists.

 

[Richard Dye]

Thanks Tinpot. Your first photo certainly shows one of the bulls high on the building. The Bullring spelling was introduced in 2003 with the new construction. You would certainly notice some changes from the old Bull Ring. One unexpected good one is that the view down to St Martin's is now uninterrupted.
The bronze bull is very popular especially with tourists.

Was there a specific reason for the name change? It would seem that it would be better to try to preserve such a considerable part of Birmingham's history!

 

[mikejee]

I understood it was introduced by the company who own the bullring building. Possibly they hoped to be able to stop others using the name in any commercial venture?

 

[Richard Dye]

I understood it was introduced by the company who own the bullring building. Possibly they hoped to be able to stop others using the name in any commercial venture?

Interesting, I thought the Bull Ring was a part of The City of Birmingham rather than an individual company or person.

 

[Vivienne14]

I have no experience of the new shopping venue in the Bull Ring which is now styled as one word - Bullring - and has it’s own bronze bull on display. I suppose a lot of money was paid to create a new image that differs from the previous shopping centre that I remember well. Not too sure if the first photo is a fibreglass sculpture.

The fourth bull would have been the one on the Woolworth Building by St Martins Church. Viv.

 

[Stokkie]

Perhaps also the innovative spelling was intended to mark a new start and break with the history of bull baiting with dogs?

 

[mikejee]

Interesting, I thought the Bull Ring was a part of The City of Birmingham rather than an individual company or person.

The Bullring shopping centre is owned by Hammersons

Birmingham Bullring owner Hammerson swings to a profit

Shopping centres group Hammerson has swung to a first-half pre-tax profit as footfall recovered to near pre-pandemic levels and costs fell.

www.expressandstar.com

That is the actual building, whereas, to my ming the Bull ring is the area, rather than the building

 

[Stokkie]

The Bullring shopping centre is owned by Hammersons

Birmingham Bullring owner Hammerson swings to a profit

Shopping centres group Hammerson has swung to a first-half pre-tax profit as footfall recovered to near pre-pandemic levels and costs fell.

www.expressandstar.com

That is the actual building, whereas, to my ming the Bull ring is the area, rather than the building

I agree. The Bullring Centre is private property, a Mall in American terms. No photography without official permission.

 

[Stokkie]

I've had a reply from Birmingham Museums & Art Gallery archives.

'Unfortunately, we have no objects in the collection from the Copplestone bull mosaics - we have some items featuring the design including a flag from the 1980s and a broach with the mosaic motif and a few other things mainly from the 1970s and 80s but nothing directly related to the artist or the sculptures themselves.
We would also be very interested to find out what happened to them!'

Pretty much as I expected, I'm afraid.

My inquiry to Historic England is ongoing.

 

[Stokkie]

While we wait, here's a Copplestone mosaic on the side of Auchinleck House. A cheerful sunburst which once enlivened my commute at Five Ways. This was later replaced by a different one and the place is now redeveloped as a hotel.

 

[Richard Dye]

The Bullring shopping centre is owned by Hammersons

Birmingham Bullring owner Hammerson swings to a profit

Shopping centres group Hammerson has swung to a first-half pre-tax profit as footfall recovered to near pre-pandemic levels and costs fell.

www.expressandstar.com

That is the actual building, whereas, to my ming the Bull ring is the area, rather than the building

As Mike suggests, the Bull Ring was/is an area rather that a specific building at least we always thought!

 

[Richard Dye]

I've had a reply from Birmingham Museums & Art Gallery archives.

'Unfortunately, we have no objects in the collection from the Copplestone bull mosaics - we have some items featuring the design including a flag from the 1980s and a broach with the mosaic motif and a few other things mainly from the 1970s and 80s but nothing directly related to the artist or the sculptures themselves.
We would also be very interested to find out what happened to them!'

Pretty much as I expected, I'm afraid.

My inquiry to Historic England is ongoing.

So much for archiving!

 

[birmingham music archive]

@Stokkie did you ever hear back from Historic England about this?

 

[Stokkie]

@Stokkie did you ever hear back from Historic England about this?

Only that they had passed my question on to one of the specialists who had set up the last enquiry. I will prompt her, but I'm assuming that they were destroyed or lost as valueless (because they are fibreglass) but no-one wants to give bad news.

 

[Vivienne14]

We had two threads on this same subject which I've now merged. Some earlier posts may not have previously been seen. Viv.

 

[elb]

I've seen it from the Costa inside of Next at the Bullring.

This view was from Feb 2016

I've just found this forum while researching a creative proposal with regards to producing a piece of art work which reflects Birmingham. I actually worked on this sculpture with a friend I think in either 2007 or 2008 while I was working at an architects in town. We drilled over 2000 holes in it and the small dots are actually acrylic rods. Inside of the bull is actually a light that to my knowledge has never been switched on by the team that commissioned us to create it. In theory, when the light is on in the evening, the rods will glow and make it look furry, but we never found out! I'll see if I can find some action shots of the process. It's bought back some very funny memories!

 

[Stokkie]

Only that they had passed my question on to one of the specialists who had set up the last enquiry. I will prompt her, but I'm assuming that they were destroyed or lost as valueless (because they are fibreglass) but no-one wants to give bad news.

Sadly no reply was ever received. I suspect that photographs are the only remains of the Copplestone bull forms, but they are still said to be 'missing' rather than destroyed.