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Villa Street, Hockley (The Flats)

Grassy Bank

Grassy Bank

master brummie
Hi,

I'm trying to find out when some buildings were built in Villa Street. They are what is known as the 'Flats' and they are between Farm Street and Hunters Vale and it is where I was born in the mid fifties. I would guess they were probably built post war and I would like find out any information or street maps.

Thanks,

Colin
 
Grassy Bank said:
Hi,

I'm trying to find out when some buildings were built in Villa Street. They are what is known as the 'Flats' and they are between Farm Street and Hunters Vale and it is where I was born in the mid fifties. I would guess they were probably built post war and I would like find out any information or street maps.

Thanks,

Colin
Click to expand...
hi colin yes the new maisonettes were built just after the war..my grandparents who lived in the old houses at the back of 19 waited for them to be built and then moved into no 51 villa street..their maisonette was right next to hockley brook.. here is a map showing the old houses in hunters vale..my grandparents house is marked in purple..you can follow the line the brook took..its a straight line with little dots running down it...may i ask what number you lived at...

lyn

hunters vale map 21 in purple court 2.jpeg
 
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Hi Lyn, thanks so much as this is just what I was after. As the youngest of five I have no memory of Villa St. as we moved out in April 1956 when I was 20 months old. My parents married at the outbreak of war and by the end already had two children so I guess they were the first occupants. Believe it or not we lived at no 53 - next door to your grandparents!
Thanks again,
Colin
 
Grassy Bank said:
Hi Lyn, thanks so much as this is just what I was after. As the youngest of five I have no memory of Villa St. as we moved out in April 1956 when I was 20 months old. My parents married at the outbreak of war and by the end already had two children so I guess they were the first occupants. Believe it or not we lived at no 53 - next door to your grandparents!
Thanks again,
Colin
Click to expand...
hi colin happy to help..so exactly when did your parents move into no 53..trying to figure out if my grandparents and your parents would have known each other.. they were at no 51 until nan died there in 1947 age just 39 then grandad died about 18 months later both of TB leaving 5 children..our dad being the eldest..so sadly i never got to meet them

lyn
 
Hi Lyn, thanks for the additional info and details of your sad loss of grandparents at such a young age. My parents were rather old when I came along and in fact my dad was the same age as your nan, born 1908. Unfortunately I don't know exactly when we moved into no 53 but I assume it was when they were new as they had been living with my moms sister who was running an off licence at the corner of Guildford/Paddington St who was widowed and had two young boys so it would have been a little crowded with my sister and brother when my dad came home from the war. Were they 2 or 3 bedroomed as by the time we moved to a 3 bedroomed house in Ladywood in 1956 there were five children. I would certainly believe that both families knew each other in those first few years but my eldest sibling who may have remembered something as she was born in 1941 is no longer with us, my eldest brother was born in 1944 but his earliest memories are from the late 1940's.

Colin
 
thanks colin i never knew my other grandad either as he also died of TB in 1938 having served in france during ww1 but it is likely that your parents knew my grandparents...its a small world and even smaller that i was born in my other nans back to back in paddington street..my nan used the outdoor that your moms sister ran... :D i take it you have seen the photo of it on the forum under the guildford street thread \/

lyn
 
Hi Lyn, it is indeed a small world and an amazing link with Paddington St. I have to admit I don't use the site that often so am unsure how to find the picture you mentioned of Guildford St. My moms sister used to run the Three Horseshoes pub on the corner of Summer Lane and Cowper St from around 1929 but was widowed in 1934 and left with two young boys. My mom came over from Cradley Heath to live with her and help out and subsequently met my dad who lived in Summer Lane. Around the outbreak of war she gave the pub up and took over the outdoor in Guildford St until the mid fifties when she moved to another outdoor in Sycamore Rd Aston.

Colin
 
colin here is the photo of the outdoor dated 1959...below is the link to the guildford street lozells thread where there are many old photos posted if you are interested bear in mind that photos posted before 2011 were lost as the forum was hacked but a lot of them have been repostedPicture007.jpg...we also have a thread for summer lane so just put that into the search box top right of the page...also put in summer lane pubs as on there is a photo of the 2 horseshoes...any problems get back to me...lyn

Guildford Street Lozells

Any members from Guildford St, i lived at 17/144. Does any one recall the Farm St end of Guildford St where painted on the wall were the words GOD BLESS OUR BOYS (a tribute to our soldiers of the second world war Albert Wayne
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
Hi Lyn,
thanks for the guidance and a great photo of the outdoor. I can now see where this family picture was taken around 1954 in Paddington St with the lamp post and telegraph pole on the right visible. I'll check out the other streets also.
Thanks,
Colin
 

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oh crikey colin i was born in 1953 so would have been living in paddington st when your photo was taken :D ..my nans back to back house was on the right just out of shot...it was 4 back of 12...i wonder if you could post it on the paddington st thread please as it would make a great addition to the thread and say who the lady and child are and the date taken...thanks...link to thread is below..lyn

paddington street aston

M
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
Hi Lyn, so glad this photo brought back some nice memories for you, here we go again with this small, small world:)
I'll do my best to post it although I have to guess that the baby is my brother who is 2 years older, born 1952, as it's always thought to be him, I do know who is holding him and was probably taken in summer 1953. My eldest sister had to wear a calliper for some years when younger and you can see her foot on the left sitting on the step. Would you like me to also post this other image of Paddington St taken when partially demolished in 1964 looking towards Guildford St with the lamp post and telegraph pole still visible at the far end on the right.

Colin
 

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thanks colin and yes i can see your sister on the left..there is no need to post that photo on the paddington st thread as i posted it along with another 6 others some years ago...got the photos from the library...but we are always searching for new photos..

lyn
 
Hi Lyn,

I've just purchased a photo taken from the air of Hockley in 1939 and I've attached a section where you can see the Flats in Villa Street newly built, occupied or not I don't know but it does mean that they were built earlier than we at first thought.
 

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hi colin thats great as we now know for certain that the maisonettes were certainly built but maybe not finished in 39...as seen on your photo you can see the older houses opposite the maisonettes in hunters vale and on the 39 eve of war register my grandparents..my dad and his siblings were still living in the old houses opposite the new ones..i know for certain from dad that they moved into no 51 as first tenants ..dad like many came home from being evacuated in 1941/2 as by then it was thought no bombs would drop but how wrong they were..he said when the bombs came they were living at no 51 right next to the brook and when hunters vale was hit he was shaken out of his bed..there was some damage to a couple of maisonettes at the far end of hunters vale and extensive damage to gothic cottages(marked on the map on post 2) ...in case you have not seen it here is the thread which shows photos of the damage at gothic cottages..by the way col did you know that the new inns pub was more or less on the site of where no 53 was built...here is a photo of the pubs cellars being pumped out after yet another of the many floods hunters vale suffered when the brook came over the high wall..

new inns corner hunters vale and villa st.jpg

Gothic Cottages Hunters Vale

Does anyone know where Gothic Cottages were? Were they in Hunters Vale?
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk

lyn
 
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Hi Lyn,

Thanks for this further insight into life at the Flats. So it's a good chance that as your grandparents were the first tenants at 51 and you Dad remembers the bombs around 1941/2 that the maisonettes were being occupied around this time. This throws into doubt that we were the first tenants at 53 as the council wouldn't have given a two/three? bedroomed accommodation to a couple with only one child (the next sibling didn't come along until 1944) so there seems to be a gap of 3/4 years I think. I am planning to go to Birmingham Central Library at some point and will try and see if the electoral roll can shed any light on these years. Do you know if they were 2 or 3 bedroomed or was there a mixture. I remember my Dad once told me an awful joke about the man upstairs who only had one leg and when they heard him moving around my Dad said he was doing the military 'one' step, completely went over my head, I was only 6 or 7! A great photo of the cellars being pumped out at the New Inns and the spectacle being watched by the whole neighbourhood by the look of it, has a 1930's look about it. Very apt that we lived on the site of a pub as my Dad was partial to the odd gallon or two of mild!

Cheers, Colin
 
Grassy Bank said:
Hi Lyn,

Thanks for this further insight into life at the Flats. So it's a good chance that as your grandparents were the first tenants at 51 and you Dad remembers the bombs around 1941/2 that the maisonettes were being occupied around this time. This throws into doubt that we were the first tenants at 53 as the council wouldn't have given a two/three? bedroomed accommodation to a couple with only one child (the next sibling didn't come along until 1944) so there seems to be a gap of 3/4 years I think. I am planning to go to Birmingham Central Library at some point and will try and see if the electoral roll can shed any light on these years. Do you know if they were 2 or 3 bedroomed or was there a mixture. I remember my Dad once told me an awful joke about the man upstairs who only had one leg and when they heard him moving around my Dad said he was doing the military 'one' step, completely went over my head, I was only 6 or 7! A great photo of the cellars being pumped out at the New Inns and the spectacle being watched by the whole neighbourhood by the look of it, has a 1930's look about it. Very apt that we lived on the site of a pub as my Dad was partial to the odd gallon or two of mild!

Cheers, Colin
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same as my dad colin..liked his pint and was also an ansells mild drinker..great story about the man who lived above..good luck with the library let me know how you get on...i know for sure that no 51 is a three bedroomed property because i asked the man who lives there the other week when i was down the old end..he was standing outside..of course when nan and grandad moved into no 51 they already had 6 but little harry died aged 6 during a burst appendix op when he was evacuated to wales...so sad

lyn
 
Those childhood deaths were so heart breaking but sadly all too frequent in those days. I'm sure most people knew of someone who died young back then but the subject is rarely discussed. My brother who was born in 1944 was one of twins but his twin brother died just three weeks later, how difficult it must have been for my Mom to travel to the Sorrento Hospital to see him from Paddington St by tram/bus during those miserable war days in the middle of a bitter January. I would guess that 53 was also a three bedroom so it's possible that we didn't move in until after 1947 when there would have been one girl and two boys. Funny how the people who could give us the answers are no longer with us and when we were young we really didn't care too much about what went on in their younger days, oh for a little hindsight! It was good that you paid a visit to Villa St recently as it was something I intended to do before I retired in 2019 as I had use of a company car and was in Birmingham quite regularly (I live in Kidderminster now) but never got round to it although I still intend to go and see the Flats as I'm planning a visit to my old Ladywood haunts as I see the council are to flatten the area and completely rebuild over the next 20 years. Another aerial shot is attached although not especially clear but does show that by May 1950 your grandparents house in Hunters Vale had gone and the factories were there and of course Paddington St still fully intact.

Colin
 

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my nan died at no 51 in nov 1947 aged 39 colin..my grandad died in 1949 aged 45 both from TB although by then grandad had swiftly remarried and lived in barker st ..dad and his brother were old enough to look after themselves and were both serving national service but after grandad died his 2 younger sisters and brother was not wanted by grandads 2nd wife and so ended up being fostered...very sad

lyn
 
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Tragic losses at such a young age. Today children seen as 'not wanted' especially by 'step in' parents is viewed as cruel but back then it was probably quite common given the scarcity of accommodation and the number of children from both parties. Unimaginable to us now but I guess many couples did get together in a short time in those immediate post war years especially widowed women with several hungry mouths to feed with no husband. To be fostered at that time must have been so traumatising and I hope they weren't affected in later life by the experience. Was it the Barker St near Villa Cross and not the one at the bottom of my street Shakespeare Rd Ladywood.

Colin
 
Grassy Bank said:
Tragic losses at such a young age. Today children seen as 'not wanted' especially by 'step in' parents is viewed as cruel but back then it was probably quite common given the scarcity of accommodation and the number of children from both parties. Unimaginable to us now but I guess many couples did get together in a short time in those immediate post war years especially widowed women with several hungry mouths to feed with no husband. To be fostered at that time must have been so traumatising and I hope they weren't affected in later life by the experience. Was it the Barker St near Villa Cross and not the one at the bottom of my street Shakespeare Rd Ladywood.

Colin
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hi col i think back in the day when there was no social security or help for widowed men grandad married in haste so that he would have a wife to look after the little ones while he worked...thats just the way it was back then..happy to report that my 2 aunts and uncle we not affected too much and all went on to have happy lives...yes it was barker st near the villa cross..not sure if you have seen this thread about the hockley brook floods..if not read from post 1 as it show photos i took some years ago..you can see just how high the wall was and as i child walking past the red fire doors to farm st school i always looked through the gap down at the brook..after heavy rain the brook would rise to almost the top of the high wall and did not smell very nice..no 51 was next to the wall on the right of my photos...lyn

Hockley Brook floods

hi folks...took a trip down the old end yesterday..and it got me thinking just how much of hockley brook we can still see..anyhow as a child my dad lived right next to it in villa street..heres a couple of pics.... lyn:)
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
Hi Lyn, I can understand how your grandad and many others may have gone down that road for reasons of family security and practicality and it may appear hurtful to your grans memory but, as you say, it was just the way back then, thankfully we have never had to make such difficult decisions. Really enjoyed your thread about the floods, unbelievable that it would rise to such an height and those smells will live with you for ever I'm sure. The 1866 account really shows the filthy conditions our forefathers had to endure which didn't really improve that much to the days of your grandparents.
Colin
 
Grassy Bank said:
Hi Lyn,

Thanks for this further insight into life at the Flats. So it's a good chance that as your grandparents were the first tenants at 51 and you Dad remembers the bombs around 1941/2 that the maisonettes were being occupied around this time. This throws into doubt that we were the first tenants at 53 as the council wouldn't have given a two/three? bedroomed accommodation to a couple with only one child (the next sibling didn't come along until 1944) so there seems to be a gap of 3/4 years I think. I am planning to go to Birmingham Central Library at some point and will try and see if the electoral roll can shed any light on these years.
Cheers, Colin
Click to expand...

There are no electoral rolls during the war. One in 1939 and no more until 1945. So you may not get any further trying to use that route.
 
jan i meant to tell colin that there are no electoral rolls for the wars years so thanks for the reminder

hi col glad you enjoyed reading the hockley brook thread...just a little story here..my brother who is 3 years younger than me decided at the age of about 13 along with a couple of mates to climb down the ladders and walk the culvated brook for as far as they could until they reached the metal shutters which trapped any flowing debris... o_O i am afraid that the maisonettes are now in a bit of state and i often wonder just how long they will be there for so if you are planning a trip i would go as soon as you can..

lyn
 
1945 eroll entry for Villa Street To be on the list they had to be lving there by 30th June 1945
1691935057452.png
 
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I remember now that I used to have my Moms wartime identity tag which was engraved 53 Villa Street so it does show that we moved in there at some point during the war and not 1947 as I first thought.
 
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