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Very grateful for Warstone Lane L/U please - EVANS and DANIELS.

B

Brummie On Exmoor

master brummie
Hi there,

I would be very grateful if someone could do a L/U for me in Warstone Lane Cemetery records. I live in Devon, and only get up to Brum occasionally.

A Victorian cousin, Elizabeth DANIELS nee MOLESWORTH formerly EVANS appears to have died in April to June 1891, in Birmingham. I am sure that she is buried in Warstone Lane, Record No. 43197. It is marked as MI (so there is or was a stone till recently) and 4 in grave.

I have a hunch that 2 of the 4 are her daughter Emily EVANS who died in Oct-Dec 1903, and is also in Warstone Lane, marked MI and 4 in grave, Record No. 59973, and her stepson Alfred DANIELS who died Jan-Mar 1884 and is also in Warstone Lane, marked MI and 4 in grave, Record No. 33379. I have not been able to guess the 4th individual.

I would be so grateful if someone could check this out for me. Absolutely no hurry.

Best wishes

Jane Jackson.
 
Hi Jane,

yes you're correct, all three in the same grave Section H 1374... Elizabeth 1891, Emily 1903 and Alfred 1884.
You can look up yourself on this site..
https://www.jqrg.org/page8.html

If we can determine there's a stone I'll try and get a picture for you as i have relatives also buried in section H which is near Vyse Street.
 
Hello Jane and brumgum - the JQRG site has the following memorial recorded:

Warstone Lane - H 1374
In loving memory of Alfred DANIELS who died March 15th 1884 aged 27 years. Elizabeth DANIELS [1891] aged 60 years and of Emily EVANS who died November 21st 1903 aged 41 years. "Thy will be done." '1374.' Flat Slab Ston
 
Dear brumgum and pollypops,

Thank you SO MUCH! Absolutely FANTASTIC! It never fails to overwhelm me when I see how kind, and generous of their time, my fellow Brummie's are.

I am also really chuffed that my highly instinctive rather than fact-based digging has proved correct! I had a total brick wall on this little grouping until a few days ago, when I revisited them, with the help of Ancestry's super new Birmingham Parish Records.

As is always the way, I now have new questions however! Firstly, (and rhetorically) Elizabeth, widowed twice in 20 years, was really seriously poor. I cannot imagine how or where she found the money for a family plot, and a stone for her step-son, herself and her daughter! I would have expected a common grave. Secondly, (but not rhetorical) the grave was reportedly a 4 person grave, a fact repeated on all 3 entries on the National Burial Index. Is there any way to discover the 4th name please?

Thank you again to my 2 very kind correspondents,

Jane
 
Hi Jane,
When did Elizabeth's second husband (Mr ? Daniels) die - was it before Alfred died in 1884? Could he have bought the grave?

You can buy a copy of the original entry in the burial register from BMSGH - for a grave that has multiple burials they charge £4 for the first entry and 50p for each additional burial - so if there are 4 in there it would cost you £5.50.

I have used this service myself and have found them very helpful. Before placing the order I emailed the person (Yvonne - a lovely lady) who holds the index giving all the information I had and got a quote before I placed the order and paid.

The information varies in the registers depending on how they were filled in at the time - some just give the basic - name, age, address, date of burial and some include the date and cause of death and sometimes extra information wrote at the side about instructions for opening the grave etc.

It may help solve the mystery of the 4th person and who paid for the grave.
https://www.bmsgh-shop.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3042
 
Yes, John DANIELS died some years before, possibly in 1879, but certainly 1871-1881. And he was also really seriously poor - a Labourer, and they lived in a Court. Also, I think he is buried in Witton. Yes, I will contact BMSGH. The whole thing is fascinating!

Thank you for your help,

Jane
 
Jane,

You may find that the 4th person in the grave is not related to your family as quite often old graves without a headstone were resold in later years to another family who then put a headstone on it. I know this happened in the nearby Key Hill Cemetery and I think it happened in Warstone Lane too.

I hope you manage to solve it - please let us know how you get on.
 
I will certainly post the final info when I have it. Yes, I have found 'strangers' in otherwise family graves, so that may well be the answer here.

All the best

Jane
 
Well, I have the answer.

The grave was a private grave. The first person in the grave was Lucy GROVES, who was buried in Jan 1873. She was 22, and the daughter of George & Naomi who lived in Sparkbrook. I can find/think of no connection with my family.

After that, in 1884, Elizabeth DANIELS paid £1 10s for the grave to be reopened, for her step-son Alfred. She joined him in 1891 and then her daughter Emily EVANS in 1903. So Elizabeth paid. I am utterly flummoxed, because I cannot imagine how she found the money. I can only imagine that as the grave already had an occupant, it was cheaper than a brand new one, but was viewed as more desirable than a communal one. Nevertheless, she must have really cared about Alfred, and wanted to have a grave for herself and Emily with him. What a lovely lady.

Emily incidently died in Queen's Hospital. I have been told that by 1903, they specialised in TB. TB sounds likely - a single woman, aged 41.

Jane
 
Hi Jane, Thanks for letting us know the outcome. As you can't find a connection to the Groves it does seem likely that the grave was re-sold to Elizabeth Daniels - although as you say if she was poor it is a mystery how she afforded it - and don't forget the cost of the headstone would have been extra too - and they were definitely not cheap to buy/have done.

It would be very interesting to see a photo of the headstone as you may be able to work out when it was put on the grave by the inscription- if it looks as if all the inscription was done at the same time it could have been paid for by relatives of Emily Evans.

How ever it was paid for it is lovely that Elizabeth managed to ensure they were all buried together.

It is quite sad (but lucky for your family) that George and Naomi did not manage to be buried with their daughter Lucy after buying a grave big enough for 4.

Thanks again for letting us know :adoration:
 
Last edited:
Jane, I think I have just found the obituary for Lucy Groves - died 5th January 1873, age 22. She was married as it says: wife of William Groves of Larches Street, Sparkbrook. Youngest daughter of Mr George Luckman of Darwin Street. Do you have anyone with the surname Luckman in your family?
 
Hi there,

No, it doesn't ring any bells. I shall keep all these names in mind, as quite often, a new lead later can throw up a connection that is not obvious at the time.

Thanks for all your help.

Best wishes,

Jane
 
Polly the name Luckman appears as a name somebody on the forum has in their searches.
 
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