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Turland, Betsy Or Elizabeth

C

CarolynR

Brummie babby
My 2x Great Grandmother Elizabeth (Betsy) Turland (born Elizabeth Grant 1847, Great Glen, Leicestershire) lived at 54 Hope Street, Birmingham in 1901 with the Sheffield family - Joseph Sheffield (a publican born in Nuneaton), his father and his young son. Mrs Sheffield had evidently died. Elizabeth was the 'housekeeper', but was estranged from her husband John Turland, rather than being a widower as the Census says. Some time afterwards, Elizabeth returned to Leicester where she died in 1909, remembering the young boy Henry through a small bequest in her will.

Are there any photographs or images of Victorian Hope Street, perhaps showing Number 54? Was it a small pub?

Does anyone have any more information on the Sheffield family? They lived briefly in Nuneaton, where Elizabeth's mother Judith lived in 1871, so perhaps that was where they met.

Any more relevant information, anyone?
 
In Kelly's directories number 54 is just listed as a beer retailer. In 1900 and 1905 the name is not Sheffield. In 1900 Joseph Sheffield is listed at Railway Hotel Curzon Street and in 1905 he is listed at the New Peacock PH at 49 Aston Road. I have no way of knowing if this is the same person but it seems likely. 1901 directory is not online. I assume you have him on 1911 census?
 
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It appears that it was Joseph Sheffield's wife who was the original publican, she is listed on the 1891 census as a Licensed Victualler living on Curzon St. Joseph was a Railway Shunter living with an aunt on Barwell Road, Bordesley.

Joseph Sheffield married Katherine Sterry (nee Crutchley/Critchley) 9 Oct 1894.

She died in 1895.
 
MWS said:
It appears that it was Joseph Sheffield's wife who was the original publican, she is listed on the 1891 census as a Licensed Victualler living on Curzon St. Joseph was a Railway Shunter living with an aunt on Barwell Road, Bordesley.

Joseph Sheffield married Katherine Sterry (nee Crutchley/Critchley) 9 Oct 1894.

She died in 1895.
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Many thanks, that's interesting but I can't find her on Ancestry...can you assist, please? So he married twice, I guess. Do you know the first wife's maiden name, please?
 
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One small coincidence is that Joseph's parents were Samuel Sheffield & Ann Smith. Ann was born 1835 in Claybrook, Leicestershire. Marriage was registered Lutterwoth, 1853
&
Elizabeth Grant's illegitimate son was registered and christened as Robert Smith Grant.

If it was a less common name there might be something to it but as it's Smith it is probably just coincidence.
 
pjmburns said:
In Kelly's directories number 54 is just listed as a beer retailer. In 1900 and 1905 the name is not Sheffield. In 1900 Joseph Sheffield is listed at Railway Hotel Curzon Street and in 1905 he is listed at the New Peacock PH at 49 Aston Road. I have no way of knowing if this is the same person but it seems likely. 1901 directory is not online. I assume you have him on 1911 census?
Click to expand...
MWS said:
It appears that it was Joseph Sheffield's wife who was the original publican, she is listed on the 1891 census as a Licensed Victualler living on Curzon St. Joseph was a Railway Shunter living with an aunt on Barwell Road, Bordesley.

Joseph Sheffield married Katherine Sterry (nee Crutchley/Critchley) 9 Oct 1894.

She died in 1895.
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding. I didn't have access to all of these Directories, though I had checked some. I can't find Joseph's wife in the 1891 census on Ancestry, though, because I can't find Curzon Street. I wonder if you could kindly point me to the right place? Son Henry Samuel Sheffield was born at 64 Curzon Street on 6th July 1895 to Joseph Sheffield (Licensed Victualler) and his wife Catherine Sheffield (late Sterry or Skerry, formerly Crutchley). On the baptism record dated Sept 4th 1895, Joseph is shown as a Hotel Keeper. I have a 1901 Rate Book for Hope Street, where Joseph Sheffield appears as the occupant of 54, owned by Ansells Brewery and described as the 'Duke of Cumberland' Licensed Beerhouse. There is a 1906 Rate Book, where a Joseph Sheffield is shown in 11 Holmwood Road Aston, in a smallish property owned by one Thomas Gould, Agent. So I suppose he got out of beer retailing just before that. In 1911 Census Joseph is living with his son at 7 Alfred place, Lawden Road, Aston, B'ham; Shop Assistant furniture, and that is also the address of his son in Elizabeth Turland's will of 1909. Joseph also seems to be there in 1912. But I also have a rate book entry for 1911 for a Joseph Sheffield living in Alfred Place, Lawden Road, Bordesley, which is puzzling.
MWS said:
I don't think Joseph Sheffield was previously married he's listed as single in 1881 & 1891...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-6D7C

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WLX7-L2M

Katherine's first marriage was to William Manwaring Sterry, registered Aston, Dec 1882. He was born 1854 & died 1889.

Here's Katherine in 1891 on familysearch...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WLNX-ZPZ

It looks like she's listed as Kate Stevey on Ancestry.
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Brilliant, thanks. I have some additional information (see above), but not this. I'd really like to find a photo of Hope Street, but so far no luck!
 
MWS said:
One small coincidence is that Joseph's parents were Samuel Sheffield & Ann Smith. Ann was born 1835 in Claybrook, Leicestershire. Marriage was registered Lutterwoth, 1853
&
Elizabeth Grant's illegitimate son was registered and christened as Robert Smith Grant.

If it was a less common name there might be something to it but as it's Smith it is probably just coincidence.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this thought. Yes, I am also pursuing other apparent coincidences in the life of Robert Smith Grant, some of which appeared in an article in Who Do You Think You Are? magazine in April this year. I have attached pdfs for your interest. Currently the genetics are being looked at as part of the Richard III (in the car park!) project.
 

Attachments

MWS said:
I don't think Joseph Sheffield was previously married he's listed as single in 1881 & 1891...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-6D7C

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WLX7-L2M

Katherine's first marriage was to William Manwaring Sterry, registered Aston, Dec 1882. He was born 1854 & died 1889.

Here's Katherine in 1891 on familysearch...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WLNX-ZPZ

It looks like she's listed as Kate Stevey on Ancestry.
Click to expand...
Apologies, a slip on the keyboard. I meant to say 'she' married twice! Great feedback from everyone.
 
Very interesting/intriguing. Why was he named Smith though?

I'm still a little sceptical about dna tests atm. For the most part the results seem to be a little too general.
 
MWS said:
Very interesting/intriguing. Why was he named Smith though?

I'm still a little sceptical about dna tests atm. For the most part the results seem to be a little too general.
Click to expand...
I am too, but the genetics are being done by one of the Richard III team, using a specific matching methodology. I expect to find absolutely no link to anything royal, and a debunking of a longstanding family legend!

One of Robert's direct ancestors on his mother's side was a 'Smith' so it could come from that. Or, an unknown 'Smith' could be his father.
 
Joseph is listed at 44 Lawden Road Bordesley on the electoral roll up to 1930. I imagine it was his last address as I think he died in 1934. I am not sure where you found the 1911 rate book entry but on Ancestry the page is clearly headed "Parish of Aston".
 
Many thanks for this. I'm not a native of Birmingham, and am not familiar with all the places. You are right, it is Aston!
 
MWS said:
It appears that it was Joseph Sheffield's wife who was the original publican, she is listed on the 1891 census as a Licensed Victualler living on Curzon St. Joseph was a Railway Shunter living with an aunt on Barwell Road, Bordesley.

Joseph Sheffield married Katherine Sterry (nee Crutchley/Critchley) 9 Oct 1894.

She died in 1895.
Click to expand...
I have been looking for years for information about the Railway Hotel, this is the first time I have ever seen anything about it, I know it was on the corner of Curzon Street and Howe Street and my grandparents and other relatives used to go in there, I lived in Howe Street and my grandparents in Curzon Street.
 
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