Thomas Odams: Prodigal Son

[Ian Purcell]

I think this is why Martha was working as an Umbrella Maker on the 1851 census

From Directories
1818
John Dodson, wood turner, Cheapside
1821 and 1830
Umbrella makers
John Dodson, St Martins Lane
Umbrella stick makers
John Dodson, (and walking) St Martins Lane
1849
John Dodson, Umbrella and Fishing rod Maker, 2 St Martins Lane
1852
John Dodson, wood turner and Pen holder maker
Chunk works, Coventry Road, House 67 High Street, Bordesley
Also in 1852 Elizabeth Dodson, shopkeeper, 86 Cheapside
1855
John Dodson penholder maker, 67 High Street, Bordesley

Baptisms – Dodson – all with parents John and Mary *apart from Martha whose mothers name appears as Ann on the parish record - I think this is probably an error as all other findings match with Mary being Martha's mother.
All at St Martins apart from Joseph – his baptism was at St John the Baptist, Deritend

Year - name –abode - fathers Occupation
1814 – Jonathan, Alcester Street, wood turner
1816 – Phoebe, Cheapside, wood turner
1819 – Betsy, Cheapside, wood turner
1821 – Esther, Cheapside, wood turner
1823 – Joseph, Cheapside, Umbrella stick maker
1825 – Martha, Cheapside, wood turner
1830 – Eliza, St Martins lane, wood turner

In 1837 – 29 October – Edgbaston parish Church
Marriage of Phoebe Dodson abode Digbeth, Father John Dodson, Umbrella Manufacturer to Charles Nutting

Note: There is a Nutting child with the Dodsons on both the 1851 in Digbeth and the 1841 in Painswick

1841 census
Greenhouse Lane, Painswick Gloucestershire
All the Dodsons were listed as not born in county
John Dodson age 50 wood turner
Mary Dodson age 50
Martha Dodson age 15
Eliza Dodson – age 10
Ester Nutting – age 3
Mary Pearce – age 10

1851 census as on the above post #62
Note: On the 1851 Betsy Dodson is listed as shop assistant and in 1852 Elizabeth Dodson (her sister Eliza?) is a shopkeeper

John Dodson was not on the census with his wife Mary – I believe this is him:
1851 High Street, Bordesely
Harriet Evans, head, age 35, unmarried, varnisher, born Gloucestershire
John Dodson, Lodger, married, age 60, Wood Turner, born B’ham

There is a burial of a John Dodson, High Street Bordesley on the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] September 1855
District Church of St Mary, Birmingham

It seems John Daughter Phoebe and her husband Charles were also Umbrella makers (or carried on with her father’s business)
1861 census – 136 Digbeth - listed with their children
Charles Nutting 47
Phoebe Nutting 45
Umbrella and walking stick makers employing 7 men, 3 boys and 2 girls

Also there is a Baptism of a John Dodson son of Matthew and Elizabeth Dodson on the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1791 at St John the Baptist, Deritend.


This may be Johns Mother

1841 census at Cheapside, Deritend.
Elizabeth Dodson age 85, not born in county
Elizabeth Dodson age 55, Nurse, not born in county
Mary Belamey(?) – age 1 born in county

Burial at St Mary, Birmingham
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] May 1847 – Elizabeth Dodson age 92, Cheapside

WOW! Thank you so much Polly. This has taken me several hours to get my head around. Researching the Dodson family was a brilliant idea (I didn't think of that). Finding out that they were neighbours with the Quineys in Cheapside clinches the fact that my Edward Quiney IS the Cheapside Edward Quiney after all, when I had only yesterday written that idea off. Twists and turns. How wonderful. Thank you so, so much. [see my response #69 to Mike's last post.

 

[Alberta]

The Dodson daughters and son Jonathan in the 1841 census were all baptised St Martins giving the parents John and Mary except Martha who has parents John and Ann,perhaps an error or Mary was Mary Ann.

 

[mikejee]

Ian
Below are two maps, both c 1889, and buildings may be a bit different in the time we are considering. One shows 136 Digbeth and approximate position of 2 St Martins Lane (buildings definitely different), and the other shows 86 Cheapside. Lichfield st ran approximately where the north part of Corporation st runs from Old Square to Steelhouse Lane, and there is also a map showing its route.

 

[pollypops]

Mike - thank you so much for finding the newspaper article confirming that John had split up from Mary and was living at 67 High Street Bordesley. I was hoping there may be something in the papers but had been unable to find anything - thank you! it was interesting to see the marriage troubles had already started by 1844.

Ian, I'm not surprised it took you several hours to get your head around it - there was a lot of information to read and think about. I thought the Dodsons may hold some clues but couldn't find Martha on the 1841 with her family and as she was already married to Edward by the time of the 1851 I decided to look for Betsy as I thought she was probably Martha's sister. When I saw she was living in Digbeth with her mother - close to where the 15 year old Edward Quiney had been in 1841 - I decided it was definitely worth pursuing - especially as I could see that yesterday you were thinking of dismissing that Edward. I became stuck though as I couldn't find Betsy in 1841 and I really needed to find her with her father and hopefully sister Martha - it was then that I asked my friend for help and she found the 1841 showing the family together in Painswick. Once my friend was on board the research became much quicker (I would still be looking now if I had done it on my own) then it was just a matter of sorting it all out and typing it - time consuming but always easier when the family are so interesting.

I'm so glad Mike was able to find those newspaper articles - they really do back up the information we found on John Dodson and our thoughts on what had happened.

I thought the same as you - that Edward may have imported Umbrellas/fishing rods from his sister-in-law Phoebe and her husband Charles in Birmingham. Or maybe he learnt the trade from working with Martha whilst in Birmingham and the whole reason they went to Australia was to set up a business making those products. It is so sad Martha died on the voyage but it's nice to think that Edward may have stayed in contact with her family in Birmingham and even gave them orders for the products they made.

I have never found a death on a ship - do they record it on the passenger list!? I assume Martha was buried in Australia?

Alberta, that was our exact thoughts when we saw Martha's mothers name was Ann on the parish record. Everything else points to Mary being Martha's mother so we feel reasonably confident she is - would have been nice of it had said Mary on the record though.

 

[mikejee]

Polly
I don't think that John's umbrella making was learnt from Martha as he was already an umbrella maker (and, as later, in financial trouble ) in 1827. The earlier mention is from a long list of insolvent debtors which is too big to list fully

 

[pollypops]

Mike, I thought Edward Quiney - the one who went to Australia may have learnt the trade from his wife Martha - the daughter of John Dodson and Mary Dodson. When Edward married Martha in 1849 his occupation was fancy Steel toy maker and there was a listing in the 1855 directory for Edward Quiney Fancy steel toy manufacturer at 2 Martins Place which is the same address Edward and Martha were living on the 1851 census -she is listed as umbrella maker. As they didn't set off for Australia until 1857 I was wondering if Edward had learnt the trade of Umbrella making by then which enabled him to start it up in Australia - sadly without Martha.
I hope you understand all that - I seem to be rambling :sneakiness: fortunately I think you are used to my ramblings eaceful:

What dates are those newspaper articles?

 

[mikejee]

Sorry Polly, was getting confused by all the different families. Any cutting I put on will always (hopefully) have the paper and date in the file name (for future reference). In these two cases they were Birmingham Journal.7.7.1827 and Birm.Gazette 6.8.1827

 

[pollypops]

Thanks Mike - I was just wondering because it says John Dodson "late of St Martins Lane" and "Late of Birmingham" but I am assuming this means "used to live here" as otherwise it would say deceased.
The money problems may explain why the family were in Painswick, Gloucester on the 1841 - they had probably gone there until things cooled down in Birmingham.

I know what you mean about getting confused with all the different families - I had bits of paper with scribbled notes on all over the place yesterday while I was trying to work out who was who and put it all in sequence - all worked out in the end though :sneakiness:

 

[Ian Purcell]

Hi Ian,
Glad the information was helpful to you - I cannot take all the credit for it as I had help from a friend
Something I must point out - when typing the very long post above I meant to state that on the baptism Parish record for Martha her mothers name appears as Ann not Mary - although I believe this is a writing error made on the day of the baptism as all other facts match with Martha being Marys daughter.(I will correct this on the post above now)

I do think that Martha's father John Dobson was probably still alive in 1851 and is the John Dobson lodging in Bordesley. If Mary's husband was dead in 1851 she would have been listed as head, widow not head, married. It would of been much easier for her to state she was widowed if she was than admit her husband wasn't there and as John was absent from the address on the day of the census Mary would have been listed as head - I have found this on my own family research when husbands were working away from home and lodging elsewhere.
I think Mary and John may of split up by 1851 and he had started a business in Bordesley - the John Dodson in St Martins disappears from the directories at this time and one appears listed in Bordesley.
I notice your comment above regarding the 1841 census which is possibly 'your' Edward Quiney but you are not sure as his mother was possibly in London when aged 73 in 1880 and that does not match with Esthers age - one of the problems with the 1841 is that it does not give the relationship of the people there to the head of household therefore making it possible that if it is 'your' Edward, Esther was not his mother but a relative - an aunt maybe? Again in my family research I have found it quite common for children to be living with aunts or grandparents. The puzzle continues.....
Thats a great advert from the Melbourne Paper - it fits in very well with the Dodson story.

Hi Polly. Thanks again for all the Dodson family information. I am having another go at the Quiney mystery. Is the Edward Quiney 'missing' from the 1841 census Cheapside Quiney household the same person as the 1841 census Litchfield St Edward Quiney married to Lucy (nee Lucy Avery, widow)? If he is, then the previous Mrs Quiney (our Edward's mother) must have dies. The Litchfield St Quiney married the widow Lucy Avery 11 Jun 1835.

 

[pollypops]

Hi Ian,
Here is the info I have for the Edward Quiney of Lichfield Street:
Im not the best at reading old writing - so I will get my friend to check it tomorrow and edit if needed

Edward Quiney, widower married Lucy Avery, widow - 11th June 1835 - Edgbaston

This is a possible for his first marriage
Edward Quiney, Bachelor married Sarah Snedwell, spinster - 3 March 1817 - St Martins, Birmingham

I think Edwards signature looks the same on both marriages - but that's just my opinion (will post image tomorrow)

This is possibly Sarah's burial

Sarah wife of Edward Quiney age 39, abode Oxford Street, 20th December 1829 St Martins, Birmingham

in 1841 Lichfield Street
all the family marked as born in county
Edward Quiney 45 Brass? Maker
Lucy Quiney 40
Jemima Quiney 3
Edward Avery 9
Sarah Avery 11
Lucy Avery 5

Possible death for Edward
Edward Quiney Oct/Nov/Dec 1846 Birmingham

In 1851 Legge Street, St Martins
Lucy Quiney, head, widow 50 b. Manchester
Sarah Ann Avery daughter 20 steel pen splitter? born Birmingham
Edward son 18 book binder
Lucy daughter 16 Steel pen splitter?
Jemima daughter 14 machine ? Born Sheffield, yorkshire
Samuel Hall Father 74 proprietor of ? Mines? Born ? Gloucestershire
Jemima Parker servant niece 14 general servant

In 1861 at 165 Moseley Street
George Nichols head 24 porter at ? Dealers?
Jemaima Nichols wife 23 born sheffield
Lucy Ann Nichols daughter 2
Lucy Quiney mother, widow 61 born Manchester

Possible burial for Lucy Quiney
1868 Witton Cemetery, Birmingham

As this Edward was a widower when he married Lucy Avery this doesn't fit with the information you have that your Edward Quiney's mother was still alive in 1880 in London.

I also found the death of Esther Quiney - who is on the 1841 census with the other possible Edward Quiney
July/Aug/Sept 1857 - the same year Edward Quiney went to Australia

Hope this information helps you to decide which is your Edward - although I expect it will cause even more puzzles

 

[Ian Purcell]

Mike - thank you so much for finding the newspaper article confirming that John had split up from Mary and was living at 67 High Street Bordesley. I was hoping there may be something in the papers but had been unable to find anything - thank you! it was interesting to see the marriage troubles had already started by 1844.

Ian, I'm not surprised it took you several hours to get your head around it - there was a lot of information to read and think about. I thought the Dodsons may hold some clues but couldn't find Martha on the 1841 with her family and as she was already married to Edward by the time of the 1851 I decided to look for Betsy as I thought she was probably Martha's sister. When I saw she was living in Digbeth with her mother - close to where the 15 year old Edward Quiney had been in 1841 - I decided it was definitely worth pursuing - especially as I could see that yesterday you were thinking of dismissing that Edward. I became stuck though as I couldn't find Betsy in 1841 and I really needed to find her with her father and hopefully sister Martha - it was then that I asked my friend for help and she found the 1841 showing the family together in Painswick. Once my friend was on board the research became much quicker (I would still be looking now if I had done it on my own) then it was just a matter of sorting it all out and typing it - time consuming but always easier when the family are so interesting.

I'm so glad Mike was able to find those newspaper articles - they really do back up the information we found on John Dodson and our thoughts on what had happened.

I thought the same as you - that Edward may have imported Umbrellas/fishing rods from his sister-in-law Phoebe and her husband Charles in Birmingham. Or maybe he learnt the trade from working with Martha whilst in Birmingham and the whole reason they went to Australia was to set up a business making those products. It is so sad Martha died on the voyage but it's nice to think that Edward may have stayed in contact with her family in Birmingham and even gave them orders for the products they made.

I have never found a death on a ship - do they record it on the passenger list!? I assume Martha was buried in Australia?

Alberta, that was our exact thoughts when we saw Martha's mothers name was Ann on the parish record. Everything else points to Mary being Martha's mother so we feel reasonably confident she is - would have been nice of it had said Mary on the record though.

Hi Polly
Please thank your friend from me for her help.
I've done a little research on the Nutting family. Charles Nutting who married Phoebe Dodson was a carpenter. His father was a builder. Phoebe and Charles married on 29 Oct 1837 and lived in Digbeth St acc. to the 1841 census. Charles is listed as 'umbrella maker'. So it looks as if with his carpentry skills he took up the Dodson family business of umbrella making. They obviously did very well because as you found in the 1861 census they had quite a number of employees. So Charles and Phoebe had been in the umbrella making business for about 20 years by the time Martha (Phoebe's sister) and George Quiney left for Australia in 1857. Perhaps, before he left, George suggested he be their agent in Melbourne? They arrived in Melbourne in July and their first advert appeared in August. Perhaps they took stock with them? Thanks again. Ian
Martha's death was recorded on the passenger list as "Mrs Quiney - consumption', and her name was crossed out. She would have been buried at sea. See atached - detail from passenger list.

 

[Ian Purcell]

Hi Ian,
Here is the info I have for the Edward Quiney of Lichfield Street:
Im not the best at reading old writing - so I will get my friend to check it tomorrow and edit if needed

Edward Quiney, widower married Lucy Avery, widow - 11th June 1835 - Edgbaston

This is a possible for his first marriage
Edward Quiney, Bachelor married Sarah Snedwell, spinster - 3 March 1817 - St Martins, Birmingham

I think Edwards signature looks the same on both marriages - but that's just my opinion (will post image tomorrow)

This is possibly Sarah's burial

Sarah wife of Edward Quiney age 39, abode Oxford Street, 20th December 1829 St Martins, Birmingham

in 1841 Lichfield Street
all the family marked as born in county
Edward Quiney 45 Brass? Maker
Lucy Quiney 40
Jemima Quiney 3
Edward Avery 9
Sarah Avery 11
Lucy Avery 5

Possible death for Edward
Edward Quiney Oct/Nov/Dec 1846 Birmingham

In 1851 Legge Street, St Martins
Lucy Quiney, head, widow 50 b. Manchester
Sarah Ann Avery daughter 20 steel pen splitter? born Birmingham
Edward son 18 book binder
Lucy daughter 16 Steel pen splitter?
Jemima daughter 14 machine ? Born Sheffield, yorkshire
Samuel Hall Father 74 proprietor of ? Mines? Born ? Gloucestershire
Jemima Parker servant niece 14 general servant

In 1861 at 165 Moseley Street
George Nichols head 24 porter at ? Dealers?
Jemaima Nichols wife 23 born sheffield
Lucy Ann Nichols daughter 2
Lucy Quiney mother, widow 61 born Manchester

Possible burial for Lucy Quiney
1868 Witton Cemetery, Birmingham

As this Edward was a widower when he married Lucy Avery this doesn't fit with the information you have that your Edward Quiney's mother was still alive in 1880 in London.

I also found the death of Esther Quiney - who is on the 1841 census with the other possible Edward Quiney
July/Aug/Sept 1857 - the same year Edward Quiney went to Australia

Hope this information helps you to decide which is your Edward - although I expect it will cause even more puzzles

Thank you again Polly. I think you have definitely shown that Edward Quiney of Lichfield St is not the 'missing' Edward Quiney from Cheapside, and therefore not our Edward Quiney's father. What happened to the Cheapside Edward Quiney Snr remains a mystery. Perhaps he left the family and went back to Northern Ireland? Thank you for finding the death notice for Esther Quiney. Another piece of the puzzle.

 

[Ian Purcell]

Polly
I don't think that John's umbrella making was learnt from Martha as he was already an umbrella maker (and, as later, in financial trouble ) in 1827. The earlier mention is from a long list of insolvent debtors which is too big to list fully

Hi Mike
Polly was suggesting that her husband Edward Quiney may have learned umbrella making from his wife Martha (daughter of John Dodson). Cheers, Ian

 

[Ian Purcell]

My excellent Brummie Sleuths,

Thank you all for helping me to establish the true identities of Edward Quiney and Thomas Odams.

One mystery remains which we will probably never solve - how and where they met, why they became friends and why they decided to emigrate to Australia.

We know from the 1851 census that Odams 18 worked in his father's bakery on Sun St, at which time Quiney, married to Martha, was 23, steel toy maker at Cregoe Court, Bell Barn Road. Very close proximity to one another[see map]. Perhaps Edward and/or Martha frequented the bakery?

However they met, they obviously had shared interests: singing, piano playing, gymnastics, and perhaps a shared dream of achieving wealth and success in business. In Melbourne, they established an amateur music society, the Orpheus Union, in 1862. Neville was Secretary of this group as well as the Philharmonic Society and the Instrumental Society of Victoria. Odams sang in concerts and participated in gymnastic competitions [see article]

Quiney set himself up in business as soon as they arrived in Mebourne as a seller of such things as cricket equipment, fishing tackle and umbrellas. He went bankrupt ten years later in 1867. We know nothing of Odam’s occupation there but he may have been a silent partner in Quiney’s business. He travelled back to Birmingham in 1867 to access further funds from his soft-touch father.

From 1868-1870 they had a farm in Caulfield (suburb of Melbourne) raising prize hens [see advert]. It was there they met a Mrs Agnes Johnson, estranged from her husband Edward. In late 1870, Edward Johnson attacked Odams accusing him of having been ‘improperly intimate’ with his wife. Odams defended himself with a swordstick, stabbing Johnson with the blade. Johnson died three days later and Odams was charged with his murder. He was found guilty of manslaughter and given a sentence of six months in prison. There was also a warrant out for Quiney on a charge of embezzlement. They leave Melbourne in 1871 and turn up in Gawler, South Australia in 1872. They are now Ernest Neville and John Adamson.

They obviously wanted to make a new start in the colony of South Australia, leaving failed businesses and various troubles with the law (including murder!) in Melbourne behind them. They told quite a few ‘porkies’ about their past. Read this from the 1879 article in the Gawler Bunyip - “The editor of this journal, who was intimately acquainted with Neville [Quiney], has frequently heard him state that Adamson [Odams] and himself were boys together at Cambridge, in England, that they belonged to the Oxford Boat's Crew, and rowed upon the Thames, and that the suit Adamson wore (of dark blue) was the sort usually adopted by competitors in aquatic contests. In consequence of being so much associated in childhood, the two came to the colony together, were shipmates, and staunch friends. The two ran away to sea, and were shipwrecked off the coast of Africa, being the only persons saved. The antecendents of the two men are quite unknown, though the inference arrived at from the statements which have fallen from their lips from time to time show they were both of good family, and at one period moved in a better sphere than they have recently occupied. Neville is said to be of English parentage, and his father a Military Captain, but whether he or other relatives are alive is a matter yet to be ascertained.”

You have probably guessed by now that the suicide in Gawler in 1879 was a double one. Stay tuned. More to come. Ian