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The Lamb & Flag
- Thread starter clarkie
- Start date
chrishatpro
Brummie babby
My husband's gt gt grandfather became the licensed victualler at The Lamb and Flag from sometime before 1851. His name was Francis Hathaway and was a porter at the time of his marriage to Sarah Boyle in 1838. Any information or photographs about this establishment and surrounding area would be really interesting.
horsencart
master brummie
Since my 2010 post I discovered the following on the Lamb & Flag, John Street, Dale End, the street was partly demolished when Corportion St, was formed.
Joseph Clarke was victualler from 1812 and in the 1831 Trade Directory, Joseph Clarke, although he had died in 1828, was listed as the Joint Licensee of the Lamb & Flag, John St. with his second wife Sarah. She moved to other pubs in the later years.
On checking each page of the 1841 and 1851 census returns, there appears to be only one Public House in the Street, although I doubt that to be the case.
In 1841 there is no street number but the Victualler is Henry Gaskin and his family, none of whom were born in Warwickshire.
In 1851 the Victuallar lives at number 12 John St, I suspect this is the correct address for although the census is badly faded and scribbled over, the name looks like Frances Hathaway and this agrees with the 1855 Birmingham Trade List. He was born in Aldridge, Staffordshire. He is still there in 1861.
In 1871 the Victuallar is Thomas Elton, his son John born 1847 is a Brewer, in 1881 he was licensee of a pub in Fleet St. B’ham.
On 10/11/1876, William Hunter of the Lamb & Flag, Dale End was summoned before the court for Bankruptcy.
In 1881 the Victuallar and butcher is Thomas Lea, who by 1891 is a widower and caretaker of the coroner’s court in Doctor Johnson’s Passage, off Newton St.
By 1891 Corporation St. has been formed and there is no trace of John St.
Living at number 11 John St. in 1851 is William Clarke, a Last Maker, born between 1819 & 1821, in Birmingham, his wife born in London, their children and his Mother in Law plus two other families listed as Lodgers, the Blakemore’s and the Bryan’s a total of 18 people all at the same address.
William, his wife and son James and a Margaret Gavin, was in John Street in 1841 but listed three pages away from the Victualler.
Margaret Gavin’s name is quite clear in 1841 she is 40 born Ireland, a Hawker.
The surname of the Mother in Law, Margaret, in 1851 is not clear but it could be construed as Gavin. She is 83, born London.
A William Clarke married Ann Gavin, 25/11/1839, St. Phillips, Birmingham. All their children were born in Birmingham.
There are four “William” births listed on IGI in the area. Parents, William & Ann Guest, William & Harriet Ford, Henry & Eleanor Dale, Thomas & Mary Ann Guest.
In 1861 number 11 is occupied by, John Halford, shoemaker and family, with several lodgers, 23 in all, thereafter smaller families live there. By 1891 the area is redeveloped and the last two inhabitants of number 11 are living in Dalton St. off Corporation St. The Flanagan’s & the Melville’s.
Clarkie
Joseph Clarke was victualler from 1812 and in the 1831 Trade Directory, Joseph Clarke, although he had died in 1828, was listed as the Joint Licensee of the Lamb & Flag, John St. with his second wife Sarah. She moved to other pubs in the later years.
On checking each page of the 1841 and 1851 census returns, there appears to be only one Public House in the Street, although I doubt that to be the case.
In 1841 there is no street number but the Victualler is Henry Gaskin and his family, none of whom were born in Warwickshire.
In 1851 the Victuallar lives at number 12 John St, I suspect this is the correct address for although the census is badly faded and scribbled over, the name looks like Frances Hathaway and this agrees with the 1855 Birmingham Trade List. He was born in Aldridge, Staffordshire. He is still there in 1861.
In 1871 the Victuallar is Thomas Elton, his son John born 1847 is a Brewer, in 1881 he was licensee of a pub in Fleet St. B’ham.
On 10/11/1876, William Hunter of the Lamb & Flag, Dale End was summoned before the court for Bankruptcy.
In 1881 the Victuallar and butcher is Thomas Lea, who by 1891 is a widower and caretaker of the coroner’s court in Doctor Johnson’s Passage, off Newton St.
By 1891 Corporation St. has been formed and there is no trace of John St.
Living at number 11 John St. in 1851 is William Clarke, a Last Maker, born between 1819 & 1821, in Birmingham, his wife born in London, their children and his Mother in Law plus two other families listed as Lodgers, the Blakemore’s and the Bryan’s a total of 18 people all at the same address.
William, his wife and son James and a Margaret Gavin, was in John Street in 1841 but listed three pages away from the Victualler.
Margaret Gavin’s name is quite clear in 1841 she is 40 born Ireland, a Hawker.
The surname of the Mother in Law, Margaret, in 1851 is not clear but it could be construed as Gavin. She is 83, born London.
A William Clarke married Ann Gavin, 25/11/1839, St. Phillips, Birmingham. All their children were born in Birmingham.
There are four “William” births listed on IGI in the area. Parents, William & Ann Guest, William & Harriet Ford, Henry & Eleanor Dale, Thomas & Mary Ann Guest.
In 1861 number 11 is occupied by, John Halford, shoemaker and family, with several lodgers, 23 in all, thereafter smaller families live there. By 1891 the area is redeveloped and the last two inhabitants of number 11 are living in Dalton St. off Corporation St. The Flanagan’s & the Melville’s.
Clarkie
Pigots 1841 directory shows that Thomas Gaskin was landlord of the George & Crown, at 26 John St The 1855 PO directory at confirms that no 12 was The Lamb & Flag. With landlord Francis Hathaway. You should remember that the date on the directory was the publication date, and around then this could be a couple of years out of date.
Directories list the following landlords ( though you have to remember the point about publication date above):
Pre 1841 the data is a bit mixed and, although some victualers in the street are numbered, some are not, and none are at no 12. Regarding your comment about ther ebeing only one victualer listed in 1841, it was not uncommon for a pub not to be listed fro one of two reasons, because the landlord did not live on the premises, and, more common, because he had another job, which was listed, and his wife ran the pub, but she did not always list that in the census
1841 Thomas Clarkson No name of pub and give number as no 11, but I think it is the same pub
1845-62 Francis Hathaway, Named & given as 12 John St
1867 William Suter
1868 Patrick Flanagan
1872-73 John Elton
1876 Jonathan Bradley
1878-80 William Templar
1882 Mrs Mary Walker
Here John St became part of Newton St the Lamb & flag remained there, and I think it was the same building. It does seem to be in the same position in relationship to other shops.
1883 Joseph William Brookfield, now in Newton st
1884 Henry Warrell
1888 Pub has gone
1890 In approximately the same position is The Crown.
Directories list the following landlords ( though you have to remember the point about publication date above):
Pre 1841 the data is a bit mixed and, although some victualers in the street are numbered, some are not, and none are at no 12. Regarding your comment about ther ebeing only one victualer listed in 1841, it was not uncommon for a pub not to be listed fro one of two reasons, because the landlord did not live on the premises, and, more common, because he had another job, which was listed, and his wife ran the pub, but she did not always list that in the census
1841 Thomas Clarkson No name of pub and give number as no 11, but I think it is the same pub
1845-62 Francis Hathaway, Named & given as 12 John St
1867 William Suter
1868 Patrick Flanagan
1872-73 John Elton
1876 Jonathan Bradley
1878-80 William Templar
1882 Mrs Mary Walker
Here John St became part of Newton St the Lamb & flag remained there, and I think it was the same building. It does seem to be in the same position in relationship to other shops.
1883 Joseph William Brookfield, now in Newton st
1884 Henry Warrell
1888 Pub has gone
1890 In approximately the same position is The Crown.
I'm trying to trace Francis Hathaway and Sarah Boyle (who died)
Francis Hathaway had a daughter Sarah Ann Hathaway who married George Fryer on 28 May 1875 in Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
Sarah Ann Hathaway died and George Fryer married Sarah Nicholls 28 Dec 1868 in Rushall, Staffordshire, England
They had a child Mary Fryer (16 Jun 1869 who died 05 Mar 1944 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England)
Mary Fryer is the one I'm trying to trace and she married Joseph Salusbury Roberts 01 Aug 1907 and had a daughter Catharine Gwendoline Roberts (21 Jul 1908 - 09 Aug 2001)
I'm from the Salusbury side of the family
Any help gratefully received
Gareth Hughes
Stone Staffordshire
[email protected]