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The English Language.

Old Boy

Old Boy

master brummie
Hi All

The English language has evolved over the years. It is now quite different from Old English such as in Shakespeares dayl It continues to change.

I am at presemt reading a volume of the Sherlock Holmes stories by Arthur Conan Doyle. Time and again when anyone wants to know the time they say "What is the O'clock?" When we want to know the time we say "What is the time?" The stories were written at the end of the 19th century so when was the change and why? In one story Doyle refers to the North Sea as the German Ocean. Why did we drop this name? Perhaps it was round about 1914 for obvious reasons. In 1917 the Royal Family changed their name from Saxe Coburg to Windsor for the same reasons. It still does not alter the fact that they have more German blood than English.

I am now in my mid eighties and I have seen several chages, I grew up calling the road the horseroad. Now we simply call it the road as the horses have all but disappeared. I still refer to the railway station but most people call it the train station.Why? The wireless is now the radio and so it goes on. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

Old Boy
 
I still call it a railway station Old Boy the term train station supposedly comes from the USA but when I had holidays in that country it was always refered to as the railroad station. The beeb are the worst for introducing new terms for things. One of the worst I have heard is on WM on traffic and travel when they refer to Marlbon station in London when I used to know it as Marylebone.
 
It’s a very good question, I was thinking the same myself the other day.

I’m reading a book called Severn Stream, about the river Severn first published in 1949 by Brian Waters. Some of the wording and phrases are not now in common use there too, and in such a short period of time.

I think language is far more fluid than we are lead to believe, for instance the Oxford English Dictionary includes a list of new words each year. Some of this is cultural and media generated, others are the results of new technology; new inventions need new words.

I have also noticed that as old skills and methods fall outof use, the language that goes with them is lost, I have noticed this In Brian Waters book, when he talks about salmon fishing.

When I was an apprentice, I had to learn almost a new language to describe parts of buildings, scaffolding, and materials, some of these are not now in common use as well.

Anyway, with my Brummie accent, I just use the words I was bought up with, and feel comfortable, they can keep their ‘proper English’ speak.
 
m.humphreys said:
I still call it a railway station Old Boy the term train station supposedly comes from the USA but when I had holidays in that country it was always refered to as the railroad station. The beeb are the worst for introducing new terms for things. One of the worst I have heard is on WM on traffic and travel when they refer to Marlbon station in London when I used to know it as Marylebone.
Click to expand...

When I moved to London in my early 20s I found a few pronounciations strange. Although now I always say "Marleybon" as all (or most) Londoners pronounce it that way. Also, down here in Oxfordshire, Magdalen College is pronounced "Mawdlin". Weird!
 
I think all areas have their own peculiarities of pronounciation. I remember the days of Family favourites when one week a request was made from Bosham (pronounced bozzam ), which was just down the road from me. The presenter pronouned it bosham . The next week he said he had had an emormous number of letters putting him right, and that this week he would get it right as he had a request from Cosham (about 10 miles from Bosham) , and pronounced it cozzam. Unfortunately Cosham is pronounced cosham !
 
I think I read somewhere that Magdalene College was originally Madeleine - the name of a French saint and apparently nothing to do with Mary Magdalene in the New Testament. The French pronunciation of Madeleine is roughly Maudlin. At least that's what I heard!

Place-name pronunciations can drive you barmy - my mate lives near Uttoxeter which he pronounces Utchetter.

G
 
hi grah; ;
hope you are both well ;
i have a sister inlaw called madeline; i see her quite often ;and she is highly educated and lives in nuneaton ;
i will asked her to confirm that ;i was in wolvehamptpon all day yesterday ; at the wolvstock coputry and westeren and by golly it was brillient
along with the massive turn out ; its a pity the brum council cannot compete withe wolverhampton council ;
the fields was spotless ;and the marshalls and security and the litter pickers worked hard at any given time the pickers was left the fields spotless
they did not have to do it after hours ; you look over your shoulder and glance right across the fields you would not see one toffee paper ;
the band they proveded with three big stages and the moblie toi;;lets was terific ; and spotless ; and of course the police was fantastic;
and it was all free ; it was east park wolverhamton ; havbe a nice day grah best wishes alan ;; astonian;;
 
Hi Old Boy,

Interesting you mentioning the time, I spent my earliest
years in Suffolk, and we always said five and twenty past
(the hour) rather than twentyfive past. I wonder if this was
of Saxon origin, as the Germans still use funf und zwanzig
for twentyfive.

Kind regards

Dave
 
Words tend to change after misuse, for example the word chronic, its root comes from the Greek khronikos 'of time' and is used to denote time such as in a chronic illness as opposed to an acute occurrence, through its use in slang it has come to mean 'bad'.
 
Remember when "oversight" used to mean omission? Now it means "supervision" as in banking and other honorable activities.
But don't get me started...
 
Of course there is also "sophisticated". The true meaning of this is adulterated, substandard, contaminated, substandard or non-genuine. It is true that most of the people described as sophisticated today are idiotic, false and non-genuine, while products desfribed as such are often unnecessary, artificial, and serve little practical purpose. However, becauseof the "sophisticated" taste of many people, the term is used, on their understanding, as a compliment.
 
Any language is a living thing and will change to suit our needs. There is nothing worse than not moving with the times and I'm really happy to see that awful "posh" English disappearing.
 
el-stano said:
Remember when "oversight" used to mean omission? Now it means "supervision" as in banking and other honorable activities.
But don't get me started...
Click to expand...
You have got me started. I had a boss who used to bounce in and say hi guys, some of them were gals, . I used to have a supervisor, then it became team leader, then the under manager or assistant managers became line manager.
I liked the word shop steward. And father of the chapel.
 
Big Gee said:
I think I read somewhere that Magdalene College was originally Madeleine - the name of a French saint and apparently nothing to do with Mary Magdalene in the New Testament. The French pronunciation of Madeleine is roughly Maudlin. At least that's what I heard!

Place-name pronunciations can drive you barmy - my mate lives near Uttoxeter which he pronounces Utchetter.

G
Click to expand...
I just remembered Maudlin is a college and they used to be on University Challenge
 
Morturn said:
It’s a very good question, I was thinking the same myself the other day.

I’m reading a book called Severn Stream, about the river Severn first published in 1949 by Brian Waters. Some of the wording and phrases are not now in common use there too, and in such a short period of time.

I think language is far more fluid than we are lead to believe, for instance the Oxford English Dictionary includes a list of new words each year. Some of this is cultural and media generated, others are the results of new technology; new inventions need new words.

I have also noticed that as old skills and methods fall outof use, the language that goes with them is lost, I have noticed this In Brian Waters book, when he talks about salmon fishing.

When I was an apprentice, I had to learn almost a new language to describe parts of buildings, scaffolding, and materials, some of these are not now in common use as well.

Anyway, with my Brummie accent, I just use the words I was bought up with, and feel comfortable, they can keep their ‘proper English’ speak.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed reading Mary Webb's Precious Bane and Gone to Earth, the speech is wrtten in a Shropshire Dialect. She was years ahead of her time her description is so rich and vivid. I read them, then went back through them to look up all the words I didn't know in the dictionary.Nico
 
Old Boy said:
Hi All

The English language has evolved over the years. It is now quite different from Old English such as in Shakespeares dayl It continues to change.

I am at presemt reading a volume of the Sherlock Holmes stories by Arthur Conan Doyle. Time and again when anyone wants to know the time they say "What is the O'clock?" When we want to know the time we say "What is the time?" The stories were written at the end of the 19th century so when was the change and why? In one story Doyle refers to the North Sea as the German Ocean. Why did we drop this name? Perhaps it was round about 1914 for obvious reasons. In 1917 the Royal Family changed their name from Saxe Coburg to Windsor for the same reasons. It still does not alter the fact that they have more German blood than English.

I am now in my mid eighties and I have seen several chages, I grew up calling the road the horseroad. Now we simply call it the road as the horses have all but disappeared. I still refer to the railway station but most people call it the train station.Why? The wireless is now the radio and so it goes on. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

Old Boy
Click to expand...

I like the way my non English acquaintances speak English as they speak it properly, how they were tought. They don't link up they say things like, why did you no tell me that. And they don't say don't. I have several old novels and I love the language, A Christmas Carol, Christies Old Organ, and Her Benny spring to mind.Even Moore's Irish Melodies has long forgotten lyrics.
I still say the old goods yard. Or let's sit on the yard not the patio. And the nursery not the creche. I was brought up with oil cloth and lino now it's cushion floor. We had a couch or a settee now its a sofa. I am apt to say record player too and spare room. Also we say I know the air we say tune I think or melody sometimes. And the parlour has disappeared along with the brew house sitting room lobby and the back kitchen.
Thanks for the subject. Sorry Thank you. Nico
 
The english language in the usa is changing to... unemplymant office is now called work force or dislocated workers office also to apply at a company for a job one has to look for human resourse office ....thats bad enough but what the texans have done to the engish is worse....Brenda
 
The geezer reading the BBC news on Radio 2 yesterday used the expression "gobsmacked". How standards are falling.
I hate the latest mangling of our language. It's a sort of mixture of Cockney and West Indian and delivered in an insolent - sounding mumble.
Mind you, in this part of the world the problem isn't so bad, everybody seems to speak Polish !
 
There is a Magdelene Street in Cambridge too, also a Silver Street. As I understand in those were common names for what we know as red light districts
 
My present wife was an English teacher and when she came out of college in the '70's she was sure that "English is a living organism" etc and we should welcome change. However the changes today are being foisted on us by the Marketing men. Language is as fashionable as the latest handbag. You have to use the correct words and phrases or else you are old fashioned.
Worse still these people who use these words are in the Media, and often don't know anything about the subject that they are reporting, and often use incorrect pronunciation....and because their bosses are just as bad, they do not get corrected.
Classic FM a few days ago..."Samson and de-lilla".
 
I worked largely in the automotive industry before I retired, and had to deal with "cell sub-leaders" (foremen), "resourcing executives" (buyers), and the best - "outward-looking marketing team member" (external sales engineer). Someone told me that a lot of these crazy artificial job-titles are literal tranlations from Japanese. Maybe, but as I once pointed out to someone at a car-plant, this does happen to be England.

G
 
Secretaries became Administrators. Personal Secretaries became PAs. Typists became Admin assistants. Clerk and Copy typists - what happened to them? I am not sure on this one Co. Ltd became PLC??
 
MD's became CEO's, money became resources, staff became "Human resources", everyone became "Stakeholders" (Thanks Tony Blair).Police became Crimestoppers. Everything must have a brand, 'cos then you can charge people for using it. I hope no one is going to be naughty enough to use th Ol****c word or 2**2. They are copyright.
 
Co-workers, what was wrong with colleagues? Brainstorming - what about good old fashioned 'ideas'. Team huddle - no thanks! 360 degree feedback - why doesn't someone just tell me to my face? What's happening to the business world ? Might be more productive to concentrate on getting the job done and cut this obsession with navel gazing! Viv.

P.S. And there's another ... navel gazing!
 
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