The Crescent Ladywood

[carolina]

Great Thread folks. May I post this as an important element in the history of the Crescent. I am currently in the process of rebuilding the WOMENS HOSPITAL thread, and this is a summary of the importance to Birmingham women's health, that was played out in those early days of that elegant thoroughfare.....

View attachment 80851

I wonder if Joe Jordan was a relative of Ross Jordan as Joe was very much associated with the Womens' Hospital in the 20th century.

 

[mikejee]

Carolina.
If you look at the drawing of the crescent in post 17, then you can see the block with (sort of) pillars built into the front, as in you painting, and to the right is another block the top of which can also be seen on your painting

 

[Vivienne14]

That's very helpful Mike. Thanks. Whilst rummaging around I also came across this brilliant aerial view. It's from the canal section on the Britain from Above site. No date, but it's between 1915 and 1953 ! All the same a great view. Viv.

 

[mikejee]

That's a very good find Viv. If you register and log in, someone has also labelled a number of the buildings

 

[Dennis Williams]

Carolina asked: I wonder if Joe Jordan was a relative of Ross Jordan as Joe was very much associated with the Womens' Hospital in the 20th century.

No Carolina. His dad owned a Bus Company in Morpeth, near Newcastle, where he was born and bred. He's still practising (at 75 this year soon), and we still play a lot of golf together. Bless him.

 

[carolina]

Dennis - Joe was a great guy

 

[Vivienne14]

I thought this was a great photo from the Shoothill site of the Crescent old toll house. Would this have been for road or canal tolls? Viv.

 

[Astoness]

smashing photo viv...road or canal toll?? could be either i guess but would take a stab at canal..

lyn

 

[mikejee]

It is at the entrance of the wharves, so it is probably tolls for road traffic to access the canal.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Mike and Lyn. Expect this was quite a busy place and unless there was a gate, imagine a few carts etc would slip through without paying tolls. Viv.

 

[Phil]

I agree, the toll house would most likely be for canal charges. I can see no reason for making a charge to enter the Crescent as it was planned to be mostly residential. Anyway there was no toll house at the other end, so it would be pretty pointless. Mind you it looks as if you could enter the Crescent Wharf through Cambrian Wharf so that may have given rise to evasion of tolls.

 

[DavidGrain]

If canal tolls were collected at this point then surely every wharf would have needed a toll house?

 

[Phil]

If canal tolls were collected at this point then surely every wharf would have needed a toll house?

David,

I don't think all wharfs would have been subject to a toll, private wharfs certainly wouldn't have been, There were many toll booths and houses along the canals for the purpose of collecting the toll for the use of certain sections of the canal system. So it would make sense that there would also be a charge for the use of wharfs provided for the loading and unloading of cargo not destined for private wharfs & businesses.

 

[DavidGrain]

David,

I don't think all wharf's wharfs would have been subject to a toll, private wharfs certainly wouldn't have been, There were many toll booths and houses along the canals for the purpose of collecting the toll for the use of certain sections of the canal system. So it would make sense that there would also be a charge for the use of wharfs provided for the loading and unloading of cargo not destined for private wharfs & businesses.

So we are thinking then that is is a toll for the use of a public wharf rather than the canal toll. I can understand that.

 

[Phil]

So we are thinking then that is is a toll for the use of a public wharf rather than the canal toll. I can understand that.

David

I don't know what the official explanation would be, and what I have said is only my own contemplation of the matter. I very well might be completely wrong in my thinking.

 

[carolina]

[SIZE=+2]TURKISH BATHS,
14, CRESCENT, CAMBRIDGE STREET,
BIRMINGHAM,
OPEN DAILY (SUNDAYS EXCEPTED)
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]FROM 8 A.M. TILL 8 P.M.
[/SIZE]For Gentlemen, 3/6, 2/6, and 2/- each; and for Ladies (Public), on Tuesdays
and Fridays, 2/6; other days (Private), 3/6 each.
[SIZE=+1]FIRST-CLASS SHAMPOOERS ENGAGED
VAPOUR, SULPHUR, AND MEDICATED BATHS.
LIST OF TERMS.
[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 50%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Mercurial Vapour Bath . .
Sulphur Bath . . . . . . . .
Private Vapour Bath . . .
Public Vapour Bath . . .
[/TD]
[TD]4/- each.
4/- "
1/6 "
1/- "
[/TD]
[TD]Douche Bath. . . . .
Sanatorium Bath . . .
Sitz Bath. . . . . . . .
Shower Bath. . . . . .
[/TD]
[TD]1/- each.
1/- "
1/- "
1/- "
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 70%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]N.B.—The only Establishment in the Midland Counties where you can have such a variety
of Baths for the purposes of luxury and health.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 50%, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD]JAMES MELLING, Proprietor.
M. MELLING, Superintendent of Ladies.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[macqueen]

I agree, the toll house would most likely be for canal charges. I can see no reason for making a charge to enter the Crescent as it was planned to be mostly residential. Anyway there was no toll house at the other end, so it would be pretty pointless. Mind you it looks as if you could enter the Crescent Wharf through Cambrian Wharf so that may have given rise to evasion of tolls.

Hi
I had a look at the BCN (Birmingham Canal Navigation) website, and there is an interesting note for 1812 which might well add to an explanation. It would be logical for a charge to be levied if boats needed to go through a tunnel......Gibsons Basins have, I believe, long since gone.

Incidentally, speculative builders developed Edward Street, in the 1840's, a Mr. Siviter built several houses in the middle of the street and lived in one of them for some years. The housing attracted quite a mix of people - with clerks and policemen living amongst tradesmen and artisans ..Siviter then moved to No.1. The Crescent - which I had assumed to be more 'posh'. Part of the building work he undertook became established as a pub called the Ivy Green. (I lived there in the 1950's, but that is another tale).

'1812
New wharves were added in central Birmingham just off Cambrian Wharf near the end of the line. These were known as Gibson's Basins (situated close to Baskerville Road). To reach the basins the canal had to pass through a tunnel under The Crescent situated close to the present day Brindley Drive.''

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks all re original my question. I've looked at other toll houses and the pictures of canal toll houses seem to have generally been small, single storey places, sometimes hexagonal. I wonder if the design of the Crescent toll building tells us anything more? It's two storey, so presume someone would have lived above the office, it looks Georgian in design, so probably built about the same time as the Crescent and it looks functional and less design conscious than the later toll houses. I think it must have had a key role, and if it was manned 24 hrs a day, why? Viv.

 

[DavidGrain]

The shape of toll houses is so that the tollkeeper can look out through windows facing all directions of travel so that he has advance warning.

 

[hy09ak]

Is this the one you mean shirley?

Mikejee, wonder if you could help me? This painting is great but I can't seem to find it online. Have tried various art galleries but not having much luck. Could you kindly share the source/link etc? Thanks, hy09ak

 

[mikejee]

Am not sure where i got the copy from. It does not seem to be online now. there is a firm advertising reproduction posters at
https://www.allposters.co.uk/-sp/Bi...CMDHwbHT3M4CFUyiGQodiloNDA&gclsrc=ds&stp=true

 

[Astoness]

in 1891 the famous surgeon lawson tait resided at nos 7.8.9 and 10 the crescent....when this thread was first started i had not done any research on him so i am so pleased to see the photos of the crescent...thanks folks

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

Crescent Wharf in 1976. It was the first of the canal wharves to be restored in modern times, but it's undergone even further change since the 1970s with the Brindley Place development. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

This japanned tray show the efforts of Mr Sadler in a balloon ascent in October 1823 from the Crescent. But what are the buildings A - G? Viv.

 

[Astoness]

these are new to me but maybe not to everyone...think thats a policeman standing on the right pavement in pic 1...no objection to these being shared but please credit newmans uni archives thank you

courtesy of newmans uni archives

lyn

 

[mikejee]

A map giving some idea of where the photos must have been taken:
Pink arrow no 1441
Blue arrow no 1448
Green arrow no 1462 (tollhouse not marked on this c 1952 map)
Orange arrow no 1464
I am not sure of no 1463. the only address I can find in the area for J>T> Edwards is n St Martins Place, Maybe they had a nearby yard in the Crescent also, which was not listed in Kellys

 

[Astoness]

thank you mike i have that map and was looking at it last night wondering where abouts the photos were taken..

lyn

 

[Radiorails]

Looking at the map in post #86, I notice many of the buildings and areas on the map are municipally owned. I presume most of what is seen in those great photos (post# 85) has now gone enabling re-development. Nice to see that the Crescent Cinema still exists, albeit in new premises.

 

[Phil]

Some more images of the Crescent including a later one of the Original Crescent Theatre. I have also reinstated some of my earlier posted images to this thread.

 

[mikejee]

Here is a photograph labelled as The Crescent. It shows the Hall of Memory in the distance , but Baskerville House house not seem to have been constructed, so date must be between 1925 and 1938, with the possible end date probably being before 1938, as



The site from which this was taken would seem to be indicated by the red arrow in the map below. The map is from before the construction of the Hall of Memory, but position is indicated by the red circle.