Temple Row West

[Astoness]

viv i would say that is about right the only thing is i can only see what looks like covered wagons no sign of samuel lines house and art studio unless i am missing something..maybe he had not built his house in 1821..according to wiki his studio was in newhall st


Lines studied drawing under Joseph Barber at the latter's academy on Great Charles Street,[4] and in 1807 opened his own academy for training pupils in drawing and painting in Newhall Street. This was so successful that he was able to build his own house in Temple Row.[2]

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

Lyn I think it’s the site only. If as Dave89 suggests Temple Row West is between the poplar tree and Colmore Row/Ann Street to the right it must be somewhere around there. Lines did drawings of the view before the painting, maybe he painted from one of his older (ie pre 1821) drawings ? Maybe someone can help us out here. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

I posted this on the Temple Row thread some time ago. It’s supposed to portray Temple Row West. On that thread mossg suggested to us it was drawn from Colmore Row, standing on Temple Street West. He also suggested the Old Joint Stock Co is about where the last building is visible on the left. No date for this.

Can we determine which was Samuel Lines’ house from this engraving ? Viv.



And the view today for comparison.

 

[mikejee]

I would agree with all that. Do think, though that the date of the painting might be wrong, or else was made immediately before buildings erected, as the Pigott smith map (c1824) shows continuous buildings along Temple Row West, as in post 33.

 

[Vivienne14]

Now this painting by A.E.Ash confirms Mike’s point as it is listed at an auctioneers as dating back to 1810. So if this is correct, Temple Row West was developed well before 1821 (and not as depicted on the Samuel Lines 1821 painting). The painting might well have been produced in 1821 but it didn’t depict the view of that time, but rather looked back at a time when it was less developed along Temple Row West.

As an aside, was A.E. Ash, the artist, related to Dr John Ash who lived in Temple Row and who founded the early hospital ? Viv.

 

[ellbrown]

I took photos of the Samuel Lines plaque after it was unveiled in 2014.



Site of his drawing academy and his home

 

[Vivienne14]

I’ve made of composite of the images which show Temple Row West from the period 1810 until 1858. I’ve marked the Samuel Lines house - well, where I think it most probably was. Please correct me if I’m wrong. He had a drawing school in Newhall Street until 1807 which he outgrew, so had his TRW house built to accommodate the School. This suggests his TRW house must have dated around 1807-1810. These buildings are pre the current Temple Row West buildings. Since that time they were either modified or rebuilt after 1858.

We know for example that the current Old Birmingham Joint Stock Bank building was built in 1862. This is Grade II Listed, built in Italianate style and was the first bank to be designed by Birmingham church architect, J A Chatwin. The ground floor being larger than the upper floor contained an impressive banking hall. It later became a Lloyds Bank.

For general information, Waterloo Street was cut in 1823 linking Temple Row West with the rear of Christ Church (consecrated in 1813).



Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Between 1858 and the 1870s a key difference along TRW would have been the Old Joint Stock building. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Returning to the original query on this thread, and to add to Mike’s post #5, I wonder if the occupancy by the Portman Building Society was partly determined by the fact that the building already had vaults beneath 5-7 Temple Row West when they moved in. The Building Society was there from at least 1968 and was modernised in 1971. I have traced advertisements up to 1973 at that address. (The journalists refer to the address as ‘Temple Row’ but all the advertisements for Portman give the address as 5-7 Temple Row West). Below are some details of the modernisation.

I also think the mention of access to #4 next door via the vaults is significant and that it suggests the Birmingham Joint Stock Bank would almost certainly have used the vaults.

Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

In August 1945, next door at #4 Lloyds Executor and Trustees Department was based. So lots and lots of documents. Overspill into #5-7 vaults perhaps ? Viv.

 

[Dave89]

Hi Viv,

There's a bit of an anomaly regarding the date of AE Ash's Picture of Temple Row West
(your post 33).

If it was painted in 1810 showing a full row of buildings, then why does Samuel Lines'
painting , - which we know was painted after 1813 as the tower and spire of Christ
Church was not completed until then, show a farmyard and different buildings.
The mystery continues!

Thanks for the nice pic of the old Phoenix Building where I spent a miserable 2 years in
the 1960s. It takes up such a lot of Temple Row West although it's got a Colmore
Row address.

Kind regards
Dave

 

[Astoness]

great thread but im not that good at these types of mysteries just one thing to remember about drawings and paintings.. although probably pretty accurate the artist can add their own slant by adding something or taking it away so what he is seeing may not actually be shown in the painting...just a thought

lyn

 

[mikejee]

Lyn
Or possibly depicting what he believed was there years ago, which might not be accurate

 

[Vivienne14]

Absolutely agree. It doesn’t quite fit together.

Another question, where exactly was the early Library ? Wonder why Samuel Lines ‘occupied’ the small plot at the rear. Was the building at #1/#2 on the corner with Colmore Row ? Or was it #4, the building prior to the Joint Stock ? If it was the Joint Stock site, maybe the old building was bought to be rebuilt as the JS. (Cutting from Aris’s Gazette October 1861). Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

After a bit of searching I found this Wiki quote

The present day theatre and pub is housed in a grade II listed building built as a library by architect J. A. Chatwin in 1864. The building was quickly acquired by the Birmingham Joint Stock Bank. The Birmingham Joint Stock Bank had four branches within the city and the oldest one here in Temple Row had been established in 1861. The Joint Stock Company amalgamated with Lloyds Bank in 1889.

Gives ref to the library - allegedly #4 being originally built as a library. Different date given for the building. As already said, you can’t always believe what you read ......... Viv.
.

 

[ellbrown]

Rarely take photos on Temple Row West but spotted festive lights at the Old Joint Stock as I walked past.

 

[Vivienne14]

This 1820 drawing by Samuel Lines shows the Waggon Office in Temple Row West. It looks to me like the buildings could be that shown to the bottom right of Line’s c1821 painting. There are wagons to the side of the building - painting also attached. The Waggoner, (or Carter ?), in the doorway looks like a well built man.

There’s also a later painting by Paul Branden (which looks like it was based on Line’s 1820s painting) that shows the building.

These images give a very different feel to the later Temple Row West. I think on this site next to (the later named) Colmore Row the replacement building was a large drapers. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

By the 1830s the corner had been redeveloped. Viv.

Source: British Newspaper Archive