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Temple Row West

sesc

Brummie babby
Hello all, I'm hoping you can help!

I am trying to find out the history of the building now known as Damascena. I understand it was originally a bank, but after hours of searching online, then scouring 18th/19th Century directories, I can't find anything to help me. The only information I can find about banks on Temple Row West is the venue next door - The Old Joint Stock. Yet this building was definitely once a bank as there is a bank vault down in the basement. I am trying to discover the name of the bank it used to be, and when it was established. I did manage to find out that Portman Building Society was housed on 5-7 Temple Row West at one point, and that before the cafe took over it was a hairdressers, but beyond that no more information is available.

I understand the houses on Temple Row were built in 1715. I suppose the buildings on Temple Row West came much later. Knowing what they were when first erected would be helpful. It seems that any building on that stretch of street is overshadowed by the Old Joint Stock, whose history is well-known. Perhaps the two buildings were connected at some point before being separated?

If anyone can shed some light - even general history of what the building was ten, twenty years ago - I would be very grateful!

~ Sue
 

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Welcome SESC. Can I just clarify that it’s 5-7 Temple Row West that you’re interested in ? Hopefully someone with access to directories on here can help you.

Viv.
 
This thread is entitled Temple Row, but there are a few posts about Temple Row West to be found in it.
 
1883-90
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
6 Roderick & Son, property mart
7 J.S.Canning & Canning, solicitors
1895
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
7 J.S.Canning & Canning, solicitors
1900
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
6-7 William John Florence, auctioneer
1910
5 Pointon & Evershed, solicitors
6 W.J.Florence & Barber, auctioneers
1921
5Alfred Pointon, solicitor
6 Foster & Redfern, auctioneers
1932
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
5 & 7 Cornhill Insuranc eCo
5 & 7 Birmingham Law society Meeting Room
1940-1950
5 Leicester building society
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1962
5 & 7 Hastings & Thanet Building society
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1969
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1973
5 & 7 Portman building society
5 & 7 Kimberley, Morrison, moore & Co, chartered accountants

1973 is last Kellys produced
Should point out that for many years Lloyds Bank was at no 4
 
I've got this view of Caffe Nero and Damascena from the cathedral grounds that I took back in January this year.

Caffe Nero used to be the Birmingham Midshires. And think a salon was where Damascena is now. Lisa Shepard from 2008 / 09 to 2015.



Not listed, but the Old Joint Stock was a Lloyds Bank and is Grade II listed. Caffe Nero at 44 Waterloo Street is Grade II* listed.
 
Hi,

I worked for a while at the Phoenix Assurance on the corner of Temple Row West
and Colmore Row in the 1960s, and on several occasions used the Lloyds Bank
mentioned by Ell above.

I'm glad it has listed status, and hopefully that magnificent dome over the banking
hall is still intact.

Kind regards
Dave
 
1883-90
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
6 Roderick & Son, property mart
7 J.S.Canning & Canning, solicitors
1895
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
7 J.S.Canning & Canning, solicitors
1900
5 Alfred Pointon ,solicitor
6-7 William John Florence, auctioneer
1910
5 Pointon & Evershed, solicitors
6 W.J.Florence & Barber, auctioneers
1921
5Alfred Pointon, solicitor
6 Foster & Redfern, auctioneers
1932
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
5 & 7 Cornhill Insuranc eCo
5 & 7 Birmingham Law society Meeting Room
1940-1950
5 Leicester building society
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1962
5 & 7 Hastings & Thanet Building society
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1969
5 & 7 Ansel & Sherwin, solicitors
1973
5 & 7 Portman building society
5 & 7 Kimberley, Morrison, moore & Co, chartered accountants

1973 is last Kellys produced
Should point out that for many years Lloyds Bank was at no 4

Wow, that's amazing! But no bank ... or would that have been the Portman building society?
 
Sesc

Don't forget that solicitors would also at one time also had vault like rooms for the storage of important legal papers such as wills and deeds.
 
Sesc

Don't forget that solicitors would also at one time also had vault like rooms for the storage of important legal papers such as wills and deeds.

I had forgotten about that.

Still, the below link states it had been a bank at some point... unless the report is mistaken? Since I can't find evidence of a bank being there in the directories I suppose that's possible?

 
Depending on when the building was last a building society, in the 1980s building societies were allowed to become banks legally.
 
mike when time permits could you check please to see if number 3 was a solicitors round about 1971/2...i have this vague memory that it was where an old school friend worked after she left school...pretty sure it was that building which i notice from street view has a blue plaque on..cant quite read it though...thanks mike

lyn
 
An update - I've met with the manager of Damascena, and taken a look at some Birmingham maps.

It looks like Temple Row West was not erected, so to speak, until the mid-1800s. The 1810 map of Birmingham only shows green space, but the 1834 map shows buildings. So between those years Temple Row West was constructed. This seems to tie in to the Directory listings that mikejee posted.

The manager very kindly took me downstairs to have a look at the original construction. Apparently when he moved in there were two vaults - one in the kitchen, of which the door was removed - and one in the basement. The original door in the kitchen was twice the thickness of the door pictured, and apparently had printed on it 1883 New York. The smaller door is the Whitfield safe. They likely then were installed after the buildings were constructed. Also, apparently part of the basement did link to next door (The Old Joint Stock) before being bricked in many years ago, so the Hobbs vault might have belonged to the bank at some point, but from what I can deduce, the Damescena building itself was never a bank in the first place. So as Phil said, the vault might have belonged to the solicitors.

The safe(s) were put in by Hobbs Hart & Co Ltd, lock and safe manufacturers [established 1851] (as per vent photo) OR Whitfields Safe & Door Co [established 1886] (as per plaque located on wall on other side of safe door)

The three small signs I can't make out. I know the photos aren't great, but if anyone can figure out the writing...

Anyone have any thoughts in general?
 

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A small thread about Whitfields.

Right! So the little ‘plaque’ I couldn’t identify was the locking mechanism. Thank you!
 
Hi,

Lloyds bank was definitely no 4 Temple Row West, as per
the 1991 Directory of Bank Branches.

Kind regards
Dave
 
Lyn

The 1967 - 1972 Kellys lists no 3 as Fyshe & Horton, stockbrokers. The 1973 edition does not list no 3
 
thanks mike i am pretty certain my friend worked at no 3 maybe i had it wrong about it being a solicitors...must have been a stockbrockers...cheers mike

lyn
 
Maybe someone can pinpoint 5-7 Temple Row West in this 1821 Samuel Lines painting (view from St Philips dome). I think Temple Row West is the line of buildings on the left of the painting just to the right of the road (Waterloo Street ?).

Or would the buildings referred to in this thread have been later replacements of those in the painting ? Viv.

B2D13F55-FC42-4078-A717-7252131CC1B0.jpeg
 
nice painting viv...christ church in view and i take it colmore row (or ann st as it was known then) on the right...i think...would agree about that line of houses on the left being temple road west

lyn
 
Yes Lyn.

There’s also this engraving by H Warren from the 1870s showing Temple Row West to the right. Viv.

9038C454-C044-4A25-89EA-F9433C8D5433.jpeg
 
Maybe someone can pinpoint 5-7 Temple Row West in this 1821 Samuel Lines painting (view from St Philips dome). I think Temple Row West is the line of buildings on the left of the painting just to the right of the road (Waterloo Street ?).

Or would the buildings referred to in this thread have been later replacements of those in the painting ? Viv.

View attachment 137336
ad going off to

Hi Viv

Bearing in mind that Waterloo Street joins Colmore Row before Christ Church on the Painting,
I would guess that the road going up at the left is probably Temple Street.
Waterloo Street would probably have started near the dogleg to the right of the large terrace of
buildings by the poplar? tree and run diagonally towards Colmore Row (as it does today).
The houses between the 'poplar tree' and Colmore Row would then be Temple Row West.

Interestingly the boundaries of the field behind the farm buildings would appear to follow
the route of Waterloo Street and Bennetts Hill, the latter coming out opposite the gap in the
buildings to the right of Colmore Row which I take it to be Newhall Street
I wonder if this is just a coincidence.

I dont think any of the buildings in Temple Row West were around when the
picture was painted - except of course St Philip's.

Kind regards
Dave
 
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thanks john i will have to pop up town and take a look at the plaque unless of course someone beats me to it..just wondered what his association with the building was

lyn
 
great thanks viv...quite a recent plaque...now i wonder if no 3 actually replaced the house he lived in ...usually if a house was still standing the plaque would read this is where so and so lived...

lyn
 
yes i think so viv in which case his 1821 painting on post`19 probably captures where he lived and had his drawing academy

lyn
 
Taking on board Dave89’s comments, I’d guess the Samuel Lines site was about where ‘A’ is marked. Someone correct me if I’m wrong please. Viv.
 

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