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Spooner Maria Louisa c1862

J

jennygeorge

proper brummie kid
I am looking for any information on Maria Louisa Spooner who is probably the mother of my grandfather Arthur Saunders/Sanders born 11 February 1891 in Aston.

Maria Louisa gives her place of birth as Erdington on the 1891 census where she is listed as Maria aged 29 wife of Samuel Sanders with 2 month old Arthur.

To date I have been unable to find a marriage for Samuel and Maria Louisa but I do have what I am sure is Maria's death certificate, dated 3 November 1893, at 1 back 52 Burbury Street Saint George Birmingham. This gives her name as Maria Louisa Saunders wife of Samuel Saunders Bicycle Wheel Maker Journeyman. The cause of death is premature confinement and smallpox.

This ties in with what my mother and her sister remember, because their father told them he and his brother Frank were in a home from an early age.

I have been unable to trace Arthur and/or Frank on the 1901 and wonder if they had been farmed out to foster parents and listed under their name.

Any help on this brick wall would be most gratefully received.

Jenny
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

If Arthur is the only son on the 1891 census and Maria died in 1893, who is Franks mother and when was he born?

Been trying to find Samuel on the 1901, not having much luck.
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Frank is Arthur's younger brother, born in March 1892 at 96 Miller Street Duddeston Birmingham. Father is shown as Samuel Saunders, bicycle fitter, and the mother as Louisa Saunders, formerly Spooner.

Arthur's birth certificate gives the father as Samuel Saunders, Bicycle worker and the mother as Emma Saunders formerly Spooner. The mother has made her mark on this certificate so she would not have known whether her name was correct or not. Arthur was born at 36 Miller Street Duddeston.

Although the mother's first name is different on each certificate her maiden name is always Spooner and the father is consistent as Samuel a bicycle worker. On the 1891 Samuel gives his age as 36 born in Birmingham and their address is 66 Miller Street, first floor front, Aston Birmingham in the Ecclesiastical Parish of St Mary.

Jenny
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

i have found maria in 1871 transcribed as spoone

james spooner widr 46 labourer b. erdington
elizabeth 13
maria 10
ellen 5

all b. erdington and living aston manor

in 1881 this may be maria

maria spooner 18
living 2 porchester st. (porchester arms)

working as a domestic servant b. warwickshire
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

birth details

maria louisa spooner 1862 jul-sep aston 6d 260
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

in 1861 this is the family living bricklin rd aston

james spooner 35 ag. lab. b. wishaw
maria 37 charwoman b. middleton
jane 14 b. tamworth
william 9 b. kingsbury
mary ann 7 b. coleshill
catherine 5 b. erdington
elizabeth 3 b. erdington
sarah 8 mths b. erdington
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Thanks for all the information regarding the Spooner family - I will start looking into them further.

It is interesting that you have found Maria at the Porchester Arms in 1881 because I have found a Samuel Saunders living at 4 Porchester Place also on the 1881.

4 Porchester Place Porchester Street Aston
Samuel Saunders Widower 46 born Birmingham and he is marked as blind
Samuel Saunders Son Unm 25 Jeweller born Birmingham
Arthur William Saunders Son Unm 23 Jeweller Birmingham
Lucy Saunders Daur Unm 22 Domestic Birmingham
Alice Saunders Daur Unm 18 Watchmaker Birmingham

Up until now I have discounted the son Samuel because, although the right age and born in Birmingham, his occupation is given as Jeweller and in the 1891 he is a Labourer while on all the certificates he is a bicycle worker. This seems rather a strange step from being a jeweller.

He also has a brother called Arthur which is where the name could have come from. Do you think this could possibly be Arthur and Frank's father or would that be too great an assumption to make?

If only I could find him on the 1901!

Arthur, my grandfather, married my grandmother in Wales in 1917 and I am hoping that when the Welsh counties come online for the 1911 I might just find him already there but that is a long shot and doesn't answer the problem of the missing years from 1891 to 1917.

Jenny
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

looking at all the evidence i think it is the same samuel. living so close at porchester st. is a good clue. also if you look at 1891 census maria is a barmaid! the occ of samuel doesnt match but thats all, everything else is really good :)
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

My gut feeling tells me that this is the right Samuel so I'll continue to research that family and just hope I can find other researchers or family members who have come to the same conclusion.

Many thanks for all your help - sometimes you just need to bounce it all of someone else to help you make a decision.

Jenny:)
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

i found in 1901 a frank SILVERS in cottage homes marston green born bham aged 10 which would be abt right but of course the name is wrong and no sign of arthur. other than that cant find anything near.
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

in 1861 that family you found are as follows

living nelson st. west bham

samuel sanders 24 jeweller
louisa 24
samuel 5
arthur william 3
lucy 2
frank 1

all born bham. notice brother frank as well as arthur.
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

in 1871 samuel 15 arthur 13 and lucy 12 are living with their uncle john saunders at lench st. bham
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

I have been searching for Samuel snr and can't find him on the 1871 although I did track the children down to their Uncle John.

I have found Samuel Snr in 1891 living with his unmarried son Frank at 180 Clifton Street Aston and living next door but one (184) is what I believe is daughter Alice with her husband Thomas Davis and their 4 daughters.

I am beginning to think Samuel jnr must have had a big falling out with his family for them not to have taken in Arthur and Frank when their mother died.
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

in 1871 there is a samuel saunders 32 b. bham living with wife emily 32 b. shropshire in pigott st. bham. but he is a warehouseman so dont know if it is the same one. i was just thinking he may have married again after wife louisa died
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Samuel's wife Maria Louisa died in November 1893 so think this is a dead end - excuse the pun!

Jenny
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

sorry jenny im not with it. will have another go tomorrow :explode:
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Hello

I have just read your message on here about Maria Louise Spooner..

I think ... She is part of my Family of spooners



I believe she had siblings
william ( Kingsbury Warwickshire), mary ann ( Coleshill), all others Erdington - Catherine, Elizabeth, Sarah, Ellen

and their parents were James and Marie Starkey
maried 21/10/1849 at Middleton in Warwickshire

would this seem right??

and Parents
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Hi Sharon

Yes that is the right family and she would be my great grandmother if only I could prove it!!

Jenny:)
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

I didnt got down the tree any further than Maria so not sure about what happened to her but this is

1871 Wellington Yard, Aston Manor, Warwickshire,

1881 Porchester Arms, 2, Porchester Street, Aston Manor, Aston,

these are the addreses I have of her after her address

I do have a few generations back.. but we need to find your definate link first as you say.

There was a birth certifcate details posted.. have you got that?
because it might be worth getting it if the age matches yours.


I have to go off to bed now but i will come back to you tomorrow.


have you tried any baptism records in Erdington?


Sharon ( Spooner)
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

oh have you seen the SPOONER WEB SITE?

it is a Birmingham based family too


Frank Spooner is the Web master
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

just found the site this is the info on Maria Lousie on there

i will put the link on for you
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

What I really need to find is a marriage for Samuel Saunders/Sanders and Maria Louisa Spooner. I have the birth certificates for the two children, Arthur (my grandfather) and Frank, and Maria's death certificate in 1893.

I haven't been able to find either of the boys or their father in 1901 or 1911 but I think Arthur may have been in Wales by then. He married my grandmother in the Cardiff area in 1917 but the Welsh counties are not online for the 1911 yet.

Frank died in WW1 and as far as I know his army papers were among the 'burnt papers' destroyed during WW2 so I can't get any clues there.

I haven't looked at any baptism registers yet - I live in Kent and look after my 88 year old mother so it takes some organising to go on a trip for a few days to do some research.

Yes I have seen the Spooner web site but that gives no details of Maria after 1881.

Jenny
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

What years are the boys born?
Arthur and Frank
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

In Jennygeorge's first 2 posts she says that Arthur was born in Feb 1891 and March 1892
 
Re: Maria Louisa Spooner c1862

Hi there,Did you see the 1901 census entry for a Frank Saunders aged about 9,place of birth unknown,at a "hospital" in Montpelier Street,Brighton?
 
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