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Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Hello Badpenny

T Edwards 1274 was a 2nd Bn Royal Warwickshire man and no connections.

all the original applicants to join the Birmingham Pals 1st, 2nd and 3rd Birmingham Battalions (14th, 15th and 16th Royal Warwicks) had their names and addresses published in the Birmingham Daily Post each day for the first week of September 1914.
In that list there are two men or maybe the same man with the name F G Smith one gave the address 153 Somerville Road, Small Heath and the other was among a group of men who worked for the General Electric Company.

During the training period which took up most of 1915, quite a few men were combed out due to having skills needed for the munitions factories. They were still in the army but "on loan" for important war work. You say he was an engine fitter from Scotland. To me that sounds like the type of chap whose skills were needed.
Having found no medal index card suggests that he never left the country and that is what may have happened.

Regards

Terry
 
Hello Terry,

I think you may be right about him being 'on loan''.

So if he did not serve abroad he wouldn't have been entitled to any medals i presume?

i used the example of Pte Edwards 1274 thinking perhaps wrongly that he would have been one in front of F G Smith in the queue, so we would have a date match.

regards
Badpenny..
 
terry carter said:
Hello Chris

Its been a long time since I wrote the Birmingham Pals book and cannot remember if I stated that F H Liddell was awarded the MC and Bar or did Colin Harding state it in the book 'Far Bugles' ..........
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Thanks very much for that, Terry, most helpful. I shall have a further delve.

Colin Harding does indeed make mention of the M.C. in "Far Bugles" and refers to Frank Liddell on several occasions from about P.184 onwards. It seems that both these men were very much in the thick of it in the first few days of July 1916 on the Somme. No mention is made of the circumstances surrounding the award and it is of course very likely to have had something to do with Harding himself.

I have a letter written by Harding to Liddell in 1933 shortly after the publication of "Far Bugles" and in that he reconfirms the esteem in which he held his one-time adjutant. Most of the other material I have is associated with Liddell's command of the 1st Shropshire Battalion of the Home Guard in Shrewsbury during WW2. I hope to put all that online fairly shortly, together with a short note about his R.W.R. service. So thanks again for your help on that.

Chris
 
This is Frank Liddell, in a group of otherwise unknown officers. Probably post-dating his R.W.R. service, I am assuming.

Chris
 

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As I said previously, my main interest in Frank Liddell was in his WW2 Home Guard service as C.O. of a Shropshire Battalion. But I also acquired some fragments relating to his Great War history in the 15th Battalion (including some via this Forum with the generous help of Terry Carter) and have put them online here, as they are relevant to his later history and in case they are of interest elsewhere: https://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/DotherReminiscences119BShropshireLiddell.htm

One or two mysteries in it which I have failed to resolve, not least details like - what's "a Wilson"!

Chris
 
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16Pals.jpg

Interesting picture of the 16th Royal Warwickshire Battalion (3rd Birmingham Pals) this may well have been taken on Alcester High street as it came with another post card with that written on it, probably taken during 1915 before they went to France in the November. They were certainly in training around that area. Does anybody recognise the shops in the back ground? no doubt long gone now but little changed on our high streets until the 1960's and 70's


Steve R
 
Hi Steve. Don't know Alcester, but far right there's a 'Chronicle' building, so maybe it was the offices of the Alcester Chronicle ? Although a more recent address for the Alcester Chronicle is in Bromsgrove High Street. The far left building is probably 'Harris' dealers in fancy goods (also looks like they dealt in art materials) Next to that shop is a building called '..rk House'. Could this be York House or Park House? The name above the passageway looks like Boggies Bros or Buggies Bros or Boggles Bros maybe. Need someone with a directory covering Alcester High St (or maybe Bromsgrove High St) . Viv.
 
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In 1912 Kelly's the offices of the Alcester Chronicle are given as High Street. There is also a Buggins Brothers builders although at the moment I can't see an address. George Harris was a drapers but, again, no address given. Many of the traders do not have an address given. Can't see a "..rk House" so far.

Janice
 
In the 1911 census Buggins of High Street Alcester is described as a caretaker of burial grounds and his sons seem to be the builder and carpenter. Neither house next to them has a name on the census.
A look on Google shows a similar (or the same) arch on the High Street today.
Alcester High Street.jpg

Janice
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]This brass plaque caught my eye in St. Martin's Church as a fairly unusual memorial. It not only commemorates the RWR 1st Volunteer Battalion loss of comrades in the Africa War 1900-1902, it also celebrates the safe return of men from that war. And touchingly the plaque was erected by the comrades who returned safely home. Viv.

[/FONT]image.jpg
 
Janice

I have been studying both my postcard and your picture and believe you have it spot on. The windows and arch are all the same on the upper level. I will visit the shops and take my then and now picture thank you for your help.

Steve R
 
I will look forward to seeing the photo. It was thanks to Viv posting the names that I found the info. Glad to help.

Janice
 
Hi Terry
I wonder if you could help me identify what involvement my Granddad, Sergeant Alfred Bromley had in WW1 please? I've traced his war medals which are the Victory & British War medals as well as the T.EFF (1918). His number is given as 240035, which seems high compared with others that I've seen.There doesn't appear to be a 1915 France medal although I know that he served there. I believe that he was with the 2/6th Batallion based at Thorp Street and that he was a (h)ostler. I'm trying to identify whether he was involved with the RWR in France and/or Italy, and when he signed on and left service. Is there a way of finding this out?

Regards Peter
 
Hi Peter yes I will try to find some information for you. Busy at moment and I'm off to Somme battlefields tomorrow evening for a long weekend
 
Thanks Terry

Hope you had a great trip. I've just finished reading "Birdsong" again. It's a very evocative book & well worth the read! The descriptions of life in and under the trenches are awesome.

Regards

Peter
 
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help point me in the right direction in finding the correct info regarding my gt grandad and gt uncle who both were in the RWR. My Gt Grandad was Ernest Henry Bourne born in March approx 1900. He lied about his age to join up in WW1 so records my show dob of approx 1898. In WW2 he joined the 8th RWR and was based at Holte? Barracks in Birmingham, we were told he was a Sergeant Major but don't think he saw active service. His elder brother was William Noakes Bourne who was also in RWR and was apparently a Brigadier and awarded a medal. I dont know how true the ranks were (Brigadier seems a bit too important for my family!!!) and unfortunately we do not have any birth/death certs or service records. I know I dont have much info to go on so any help would be greatly appreciated. Sarah
 
Welcome to the Forum, Sarah, and let's hope that our RWR experts can help with your enquiry.

Chris
 
Hi Shoes100, I'm certainly no expert, but I have done a search on ancestry.co.uk for you, but I'm afraid to no avail, I think if you was to give some more detail like who their
parents were, who their wives were,and where they were living in 1911 so they can be found on the census, you may get more response. All the best with your research, Michael.
 
Hello Shoes100
I have found one Ernest Bourne (5147) in the Warwickshire Regiment but without more detail cannot be certain it is one in the same. I cannot match the middle name either. I take it you do not have any medals?

Steve R
 
I've found them both on the 1922 Electoral roll, not in the military I'm afraid, but it might help others find them elsewhere.

Their address is 22 North Road, Selly Oak Ward, occupants are Herbert and Lily Evans, John Coglan, Ernest Henry Bourne and William John Nokes Bourne. Interestingly there is a marriage between Lily E Bourne and Herbert Evans December quarter 1917 so I'm thinking could Lily be their mother who remarried following her hubby's death.

Further to the above I've now found them on the 1911 census
rg14_17864_0247_03.jpg
and the 1901
WORRG13_2807_2808-0602.jpg

there are a few "Bourne" absent voters with addresses in Dawlish Road that may be related to your Bourne family.

Hope this helps in your research.
 
If you try here you may get some success. https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/

There is one record for an E Bourne (private) in the RWR and 5 for W Bourne in the RWR of varying ranks (no Brigadier that I could see). I don't have a subscription so can't look at the records for you to see if any are the people you want.

Janice
 
I have found a William John Nokes Bourne on the 1924 Absent Voters list = address given as 22 North Road but he is listed as being in the Middlesex Regiment (that said there were a lot of transfers), he is a sergeant and his number is 6191053. If he stayed on in the army then records may be harder to access. It may be worth contacting the regiment to see if they can help.

Janice
 
There is a sjt William Bourne of the RWR (A/RSM) who received the DSM but I have no way of telling if it is the one you want. I have included it for you in case it is the right person.

Bourne DCM.jpg

Janice
 
I have a news paper clipping of CSM William Bourne with a report of his award of DSM, again, as Janice says not sure if it is the right one, this gives an address of 71, Cyril Road, Small Heath.
It might help if Sarah can give us some more information.

Colin
 
WOW Thank you all so very much. I will have a good look at the information you have provided this weekend and see what fits and what doesn't. I do have a few further details regarding parents and know the family did live in Selly Oak at some time so could supply more info if you don't mind checking (need to go through all the papers first!) I will let you know what fits and yet again thank you for taking the time to help.

Sarah x
 
Hi

I've just found some 'scraps' of paper I was given and it is definitely them on the cenus. Ernest and William's dad died when he was 40ish (his name possibly John) and she remarried - a Bert Evans! I also remember that Lily worked as a barmaid at some point in a pub in Selly Oak near to where the Lookers garage is now.

The info you found on the 1924 absent voters list ties in with the cenus so that has got to be him - now i have a service number and another regiment i can look into.

Ernest was born approx April 1901 - he apparently joined up in WW1 whilst underage and his mom brought him out then rejoined around WW2 but don't think he saw active service or awarded any medals. He married Florence Rhoda Watson born in 1904.

William was born approx 1897 and married a lady called Marian.

Again thank you all for your wonderful help.

Sarah x

Thanks for all your help

Sarah
 
There is a birth if a William John N Bourne registered in 1898 at King's Norton in Jul to Sep quarter, vol 6c and page 489 (have included that in case you want to buy certificate).
Ernest Henry Bourne also registered at King's Norton. 1901 Apr to June quarter, vol 6c and page 444.

Janice
 
pjmburns said:
There is a birth if a William John N Bourne registered in 1898 at King's Norton in Jul to Sep quarter, vol 6c and page 489 (have included that in case you want to buy certificate).
Ernest Henry Bourne also registered at King's Norton. 1901 Apr to June quarter, vol 6c and page 444.

Janice
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Thanks Janice. I have joined Ancestry's free trial for now. Can I ask as to where you found the information regarding the absent voters, can i get it via Ancestry or is it a different site?

Thanks again

Sarah
 
Hi shoes 100, William,Marion, and Ernest are also on the electoral roll for 1927, Living at 55 brandwood road. you can access the electoral roll on Ancestry, from the home page click on card catalogue on the right,then click on, census and electoral rolls on the left,then scroll down to, Midland,England Electoral Registers. then type in a name. Good luck with your research. Michael. PS the absent voters list also shows here.
 
mhemery said:
Hi shoes 100, William,Marion, and Ernest are also on the electoral roll for 1927, Living at 55 brandwood road. you can access the electoral roll on Ancestry, from the home page click on card catalogue on the right,then click on, census and electoral rolls on the left,then scroll down to, Midland,England Electoral Registers. then type in a name. Good luck with your research. Michael. PS the absent voters list also shows here.
Click to expand...


Thanks Michael, guess what site i'm going on next!!

Sarah
 
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