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Riley Elizabeth (born about 1880)

  • Thread starter Thread starter PaulHammond
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PaulHammond

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Hi All
After a bit of assistance again as I am coming up against a brick wall with my tree.

Trying to trace info on my great grandmother and great grandfather.

They were Elizabeth Riley (b 1880) and Henry Hammond (b 1879)
From what I can see of the 1911 census they would have married around 1878. There was a misspelling on the 1911 census and the surname was listed as Hammonds rather than Hammond.

They had 7 children but only four were surviving in 1911 Henry (b1902), Elizabeth (b1905) George Edward (b1907) and Joseph Percy (b1910)

I dont know if it is the way I am trying to research but I just come up against a brick wall every way I go with this one.
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Henry Hammond /Elizabeth Riley, marriage December quarter 1898 Birmingham REf. 6d 134
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

This looks like your Henry but certificate will prove fathers name
1881
Dwelling: 150 Leopold St
Census Place: Aston, Warwick, England
Source: FHL Film 1341720 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3014 Folio 66 Page 39
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas D. HAMMOND M 40 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Head
Occ: House Painter
Ellen HAMMOND M 32 F Lutterworth, Leicester, England
Rel: Wife
Occ: House Painter Wife
Joseph W. HAMMOND 13 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Ellen Lydia HAMMOND 12 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Thomas Daniel HAMMOND 6 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Clara HAMMOND 5 F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
James HAMMOND 4 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Henry HAMMOND 2 M Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Son
Elizabeth HAMMOND 2 m F Birmingham, Warwick, England
Rel: Daur
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

They may have gone on to have these kids as well:

[SIZE=+1]Births Jun 1912 [/SIZE]
Hammond Florence L MMN:Riley Aston 6d404
[SIZE=+1]Births Jun 1915 [/SIZE]
Hammond William K MMN: Riley Birmingham 6d583
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

If you buy the Marriage cert that Alberta mentions, you will be able to get back further. This will tell you the fathers names of Elizabeth and Henry. People can then look for them on various census(censi?)...

Kaz
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Thanks for your help.

It sort of makes sense as Ellen Hammond (Henry's mother we think) is listed on the 1901 census as living in Charles Henry Street as a housekeeper for a man called Henry Nicholls who lives there with his son Thomas (age 10 in 1901). I know it is the same woman as the p.o.b. is given as Lutterworth which matches your info.

With her are James Hammond (23), Elizabeth Hammond (20), Ada Hammond (16), George Hammond (13) and Sidney Davis (6) who for some reason was born in London.

There is no mention of Henry but then there wouldnt be as by 1901 he was married to Elizabeth Riley in his own household.

That means Thomas Daniel Hammond had either passed away or had moved elsewhere for some reason. There are two deaths I can find on the BMD for that name, One in 1892 and one in 1899. If its the 1892 one then that asks another question as Sidney Davis would not have been born until 1895??? Is that why he was the only one born in London.....
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Guess the only way to answer that question is to buy another certificate:(
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Hi
Thanks to your help and an amazing bit of luck I now know that Thomas Daniel Hammond and Ellen Hammond are my gg grandather and gg grandmother.

After your info I looked at the 1871 census and found the family there living in Vaughton Street. Ellen always stands out as she was born in Lutterworth.

I know that Henry Hammond is definately my g grandfather as he is on the birth certificate of my grandfather, Joseph Percy. I can also see both of them on the 1911 census and for some reason they have not only detailed the city of birth but they have also put the address. Henrys address is given as Vaughton Street which is exactly where Thomas Daniel Hammond and Ellen Hammond are living in 1871. Henry was born in 1879 so it all matches :-)

If you had not started me in the right direction I would never have found the link....
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Dear KAZ,i have an Elizabeth Riley as a witness on a marriage certificate . 1901 , my grandads brother Frank Rollinson 21 and Alice Amelia Hughes 19 the other witness is Albert Edward PARS.The parish church of St Patricks.Birmingham,Balsall Heath i think as he lived in Court Rd she in Balsall Heath Rd. Does any of this mean anything to you.Angela:rolleyes:
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Hi Paul

I'm sure we're related. My great grandfather was Thomas. He married an Ellen the same as his father so it is sometimes difficult to be clear which Thomas and Ellen I'm referring to. My g grandfather, Thomas died on 9th September 1916 from wounds received on the Somme; he was 40.

Your Elizabeth Riley would have been my gran's aunt. I grew up with tales of a (excuse the wording) drunken old Irish biddy, only she was supposed to be a g grandmother of mine. I have looked at all the females on this side and none of them show any Irish connection yet. Also I think Riley was the name mentioned.

They all worked together in a factory - my grandmother, her future mother-in-law, Georgina Richards, and/or the drunken old Irish biddy.

Your addresses fit with the addresses I have. What I can tell you is that there were several Irish families came across together from County Mayo and they all lived together in the Court which is mentioned somewhere. It is now some weeks since I first saw your posting. This is probably why you are hitting a brick wall. You need to look at the Irish records to find her birth.
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Hi Naylorgm
I think there is definately a connection somewhere along the line. It drove me mad at first having the two Thomas Hammond's that both married Elizabeths.

I did come across your g grandfather and I think I actually have copies of his service records that I obtained. Do you have those?? I havent looked at the details for ages but as I remember there was some query on his age at time of enlisting but this was not uncommon for the time.

Do you have any further info?

Paul
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Hi Paul

The factory my gran worked at with her relatives including the Irish lady may have been Heaths. My Gran was Florence Elizabeth and she was born in 1901.

I didn't know that the first Ellen Hammond was born in Lutterworth so you have helped me there but did you know that her maiden name was Vears/Veres and her father was a hairdresser? She and Thomas married in 1866 and her father's name was James. They were married in the parish of St Martins. Thomas' father was another Thomas.

Like you I haven't yet identified when the first Thomas died and I was thinking it was time to visit Kew.

That's about as much as I know. If I remember any more I will let you know.

Georgina.
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Dear Paul and Naylorgym Re Elizabeth Riley.My Elizabeth Riley was a witness at the Wedding of my g.g.uncle Frank Rollinson and Alice Amelia Hughes at St Patricks church Highgate Birmingham in December 1901.He lived in Court Road and she in Balsall Heath Road,is this the area your Elizabeth was from,Angela
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Angela
Yes that is the area.

Georgina
Yes I did find out here maiden name was Vears. For some reason in a lot of electronic data available this has been misinterpereted as Pears. However when you look closer at copies of an actual document it is Vears. That is also why it is sometimes difficult to find.

If you want copies of your gg grandfathers service records let me know and I will happily forward them to you.

I also traced through and found distant cousins in Australia who were connected through Ann Vears who was Ellen Vears mother. Will happily forward you the e mails I had from Tony in Australia

Paul
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

Hi Paul

I would be very interested in receiving copies of my g grandfather's service records and also for the people in Australia. These last few months I have not progressed much and also, as I said in my last, seem to be reaching the point where a visit to Kew is the next logical step.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Georgina
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

no problem Georgina.
Can you forward me an e mail address and I will send them to you.
Thanks
Paul
 
Re: Elizabeth Riley (born about 1880)

My, that was quick!. I was wondering how we were going to do it! My email is; [email protected].

All the other stories I have are about my gran's siblings rather than the generation before; and I didn't know there were so many siblings of Thomas. It looks on some census' records as if your Henry? and the next brother were twins but I have also seem them listed as different ages so I don't think they were.

My cousin, Martin found that our g grandfather Thomas is buried in Bolougne so this summer - just after Martin found your message - I was able to go to the Eastern Cemetery in Bolougne and found his grave. It gives you a jolt to see the war grave and know it is your family, even though they have just been names up to this point.

Georgina.
 
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