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Bill Parker
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
It would indeed lloyd.
It would indeed lloyd.
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
View attachment 59804
Here is a link to a picture on Google Earth that I took a few years ago…
https://www.panoramio.com/photo/19181214
This is the arm of the canal and to the right would have been the Incinerator. As a lad I caught a beautiful big roach here using a bit of cheese!
We used to pack up as the light faded and watch the rats come out. Some wild cats lived thereabouts and were smaller than the rats.
The workers would take their break shooting at the rats with airguns, another reason to scarper!
All the best Peter
View attachment 59804
Here is a link to a picture on Google Earth that I took a few years ago…
https://www.panoramio.com/photo/19181214
This is the arm of the canal and to the right would have been the Incinerator. As a lad I caught a beautiful big roach here using a bit of cheese!
We used to pack up as the light faded and watch the rats come out. Some wild cats lived thereabouts and were smaller than the rats.
The workers would take their break shooting at the rats with airguns, another reason to scarper!
All the best Peter
christopher short
Birmingham Post
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
What an interesting thread. The Wheelie Bin revolution has its pluses and in my view mainly minuses. From a Council's point of view the first investment is hugely expensive. Not only the purchase of the bins, but the purchase of new refuse freighters and the modification of exsisting ones. Nearly always a Council or conractor will have a couple of freighters in for repair because some idiot has dumped a block of concrete or an old car engine into a bin. I know of a City Council who regularly "lose" hundreds of bins in a year. Apart from those dumped in canals/rivers, they make handy storage containers in the garage for pet food. More drain on Council Tax.
I'm pleased to say that where I live these days there are tidy roller bin compounds at the end of streets where you deposit waste and recyclables. The refuse freighter collects 3 times per week and turns up between 3 and 4 AM so as not to foul up any traffic. The freighter is crewed by only one man as driver/loader. During the summer months,due to the increase in waste the crew rises to 2. Our equivalent of Council Tax has just been increased to 68 pounds PER HALF YEAR.
What an interesting thread. The Wheelie Bin revolution has its pluses and in my view mainly minuses. From a Council's point of view the first investment is hugely expensive. Not only the purchase of the bins, but the purchase of new refuse freighters and the modification of exsisting ones. Nearly always a Council or conractor will have a couple of freighters in for repair because some idiot has dumped a block of concrete or an old car engine into a bin. I know of a City Council who regularly "lose" hundreds of bins in a year. Apart from those dumped in canals/rivers, they make handy storage containers in the garage for pet food. More drain on Council Tax.
I'm pleased to say that where I live these days there are tidy roller bin compounds at the end of streets where you deposit waste and recyclables. The refuse freighter collects 3 times per week and turns up between 3 and 4 AM so as not to foul up any traffic. The freighter is crewed by only one man as driver/loader. During the summer months,due to the increase in waste the crew rises to 2. Our equivalent of Council Tax has just been increased to 68 pounds PER HALF YEAR.
Lloyd
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
Ah, wheelie bins, a vision of the future!
I can remember when our dustmen would open the back gate, tip the contents of the bin into what resembled a tin bath, carry said bath on a shoulder, then tip the contents into their environmentally-friendly Battery-electric dustcart (the recharging current for which was generated by the salvage department itself, fuelled by burning the rubbish!) for every house in the city.
As the need to cut costs drew on, firstly the amount of crews and vehicles were cut, and to speed up the work householders had to take their own bins to the kerbside, and as this was beyond the frail and infirm bins with wheels were invented to make the task easier. The dustcarts were then fitted with hooks to lift and tip the bins, the contents never to be seen or touched by the operatives. Often the cart could do this on the move, slowly creeping along as the bins were serviced and replaced on the pavement (to be nicked by neighbours if your bin was better than yours - hence the gaudy painting of house numbers on the bin sides!).
Next step was one-man operation. Householders are told (and given a paper template for exactness) to place the bin a precise distance from the kerb edge, and the cart engages, lifts, tips, empties and replaces the bin simply by the driver pushing a button in his cab. Doubtless fines for being a couple of inches out would follow, along with the non-collection of your rubbish (or the bin being knocked over by the machine, and your rubbish strewn across the pavement.).
Once the 'green' lobby started (oh dear, the self-fuelled electric carts are now history - apart from one in the Dollman St museum stores) and 'recycling' was the new idea (hang on, the old Birmingham Corporation Refuse Department was renamed the "Salvage Department" after the great work done recycling metals, paper, cardboard, waste food and garden refuse for further use during WW2) and we now have extra collections (more diesel vehicles [thus pollution] and crew - a greater expense than is saved by the recycling [and the materials are sometimes dumped in landfill sited when world demand for them is low]).
Oh. and don't forget we don't put bins out now, but plastic bags - far easier for the feral animals to rip open in search for food, again spreading the rubbish up the street.
Put the bag out a day early (perhaps because you won't be at home on the real day) and an official in a council van (more pollution, more expense) will come round and want to summons you.
And to pay for this all? Our council taxes probably round up to Christopher's £68 - a fortnight.
Grrr! Rant over!
Ah, wheelie bins, a vision of the future!
I can remember when our dustmen would open the back gate, tip the contents of the bin into what resembled a tin bath, carry said bath on a shoulder, then tip the contents into their environmentally-friendly Battery-electric dustcart (the recharging current for which was generated by the salvage department itself, fuelled by burning the rubbish!) for every house in the city.
As the need to cut costs drew on, firstly the amount of crews and vehicles were cut, and to speed up the work householders had to take their own bins to the kerbside, and as this was beyond the frail and infirm bins with wheels were invented to make the task easier. The dustcarts were then fitted with hooks to lift and tip the bins, the contents never to be seen or touched by the operatives. Often the cart could do this on the move, slowly creeping along as the bins were serviced and replaced on the pavement (to be nicked by neighbours if your bin was better than yours - hence the gaudy painting of house numbers on the bin sides!).
Next step was one-man operation. Householders are told (and given a paper template for exactness) to place the bin a precise distance from the kerb edge, and the cart engages, lifts, tips, empties and replaces the bin simply by the driver pushing a button in his cab. Doubtless fines for being a couple of inches out would follow, along with the non-collection of your rubbish (or the bin being knocked over by the machine, and your rubbish strewn across the pavement.).
Once the 'green' lobby started (oh dear, the self-fuelled electric carts are now history - apart from one in the Dollman St museum stores) and 'recycling' was the new idea (hang on, the old Birmingham Corporation Refuse Department was renamed the "Salvage Department" after the great work done recycling metals, paper, cardboard, waste food and garden refuse for further use during WW2) and we now have extra collections (more diesel vehicles [thus pollution] and crew - a greater expense than is saved by the recycling [and the materials are sometimes dumped in landfill sited when world demand for them is low]).
Oh. and don't forget we don't put bins out now, but plastic bags - far easier for the feral animals to rip open in search for food, again spreading the rubbish up the street.
Put the bag out a day early (perhaps because you won't be at home on the real day) and an official in a council van (more pollution, more expense) will come round and want to summons you.
And to pay for this all? Our council taxes probably round up to Christopher's £68 - a fortnight.
Grrr! Rant over!
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christopher short
Birmingham Post
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
Lloyd, I enjoyed that. Recycling is another can of worms (pun intended). Houses with minute front gardens taken over by 3 or 4 wheelie bins. What a lovely streetscape.
Refuse sacks a cheaper option, but as you say Lloyd they are not seagull proof as coastal councils will attest. The nightmares do not end there however. I am told that when a when loading sacks into a freighter, loader operates the compacter blade and bursts a bag filled with disposable nappies which sprays everywhere....... in hospitals these items are classed as hazardous clinical waste. More horrific is a loader picking up a bag and as it swings against the side of his leg his skin is pierced by a needle.....
I apologise if I have upset anyone but the waste management industry is full of horror stories such as these, being a binman can be a hazardous business.
The really terrifying thing is that the UK is rapidly running out of large holes in the ground and no-one wants an incinerater near them. In Scandinavia, when they build a new estate, they also construct a small waste incinerater which supplies the estate with power and hot water almost for free.
This site is truly amazing. What started with a photograph of a vintage refuse truck, ashcart, dustcart, freighter is developing into a discussion about waste mangement and recycling
Lloyd, I enjoyed that. Recycling is another can of worms (pun intended). Houses with minute front gardens taken over by 3 or 4 wheelie bins. What a lovely streetscape.
Refuse sacks a cheaper option, but as you say Lloyd they are not seagull proof as coastal councils will attest. The nightmares do not end there however. I am told that when a when loading sacks into a freighter, loader operates the compacter blade and bursts a bag filled with disposable nappies which sprays everywhere....... in hospitals these items are classed as hazardous clinical waste. More horrific is a loader picking up a bag and as it swings against the side of his leg his skin is pierced by a needle.....
I apologise if I have upset anyone but the waste management industry is full of horror stories such as these, being a binman can be a hazardous business.
The really terrifying thing is that the UK is rapidly running out of large holes in the ground and no-one wants an incinerater near them. In Scandinavia, when they build a new estate, they also construct a small waste incinerater which supplies the estate with power and hot water almost for free.
This site is truly amazing. What started with a photograph of a vintage refuse truck, ashcart, dustcart, freighter is developing into a discussion about waste mangement and recycling
BordesleyExile
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
Ad for a nightman & rubbish carter, though not Birmingham based. Not a business I would want willed to me, but Robert Stone passed the trade to his daughter. Source Cruikshank Life in the Georgian City.
Ad for a nightman & rubbish carter, though not Birmingham based. Not a business I would want willed to me, but Robert Stone passed the trade to his daughter. Source Cruikshank Life in the Georgian City.
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
How about this solid tyred six wheel electric beauty ordered to their own specification by Birmingham Corporation in 1930. It was built in Hay Mills by the General Vehicle Co. Ltd. who marketed a range of battery electric lorries as the 'GV ELECTRIC'. Note the Salvage Dept address on the side in Corporation Street and that for 9/- per hundredweight you could have Vegumus! fertiliser delivered. Recycling or what in 1930? Fleet No. 124 having no registration plate, must have been photographed before going in to service.
How about this solid tyred six wheel electric beauty ordered to their own specification by Birmingham Corporation in 1930. It was built in Hay Mills by the General Vehicle Co. Ltd. who marketed a range of battery electric lorries as the 'GV ELECTRIC'. Note the Salvage Dept address on the side in Corporation Street and that for 9/- per hundredweight you could have Vegumus! fertiliser delivered. Recycling or what in 1930? Fleet No. 124 having no registration plate, must have been photographed before going in to service.
Attachments
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Aidan
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
WHERE appears to be Whitecross Street, Islington near junction with Old Street https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51...=HlUX3-m0mqK7UUGxQ6fd5Q&cbp=12,325.47,,0,-0.9 but WHEN? c1800?
Wonderful picture, Bordesley! Thanks for sharing. Can you put a date and place to it?
"Decently Performs all he Undertakes": so the business is done without a splash.
WHERE appears to be Whitecross Street, Islington near junction with Old Street https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51...=HlUX3-m0mqK7UUGxQ6fd5Q&cbp=12,325.47,,0,-0.9 but WHEN? c1800?
Aidan
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
I thought Vegumus = Night Soil = pure ratepayer profit, but https://warrr.org/473/1/THE_NEED_FO...ARISING_INFORMATION_FOR_LOCAL_AUTHORITIES.pdf says it was from organic waste from the markets. Interesting that the vehicles were charged from the electricity produced from burning the waste into steam to drive turbines and fill capacitors which seems very "green" for the time.
I thought Vegumus = Night Soil = pure ratepayer profit, but https://warrr.org/473/1/THE_NEED_FO...ARISING_INFORMATION_FOR_LOCAL_AUTHORITIES.pdf says it was from organic waste from the markets. Interesting that the vehicles were charged from the electricity produced from burning the waste into steam to drive turbines and fill capacitors which seems very "green" for the time.
Thylacine
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
That looks like an interesting report, Aidan. I might even read it some time! A quick browse appears to confirm that Birmingham was indeed "greener" in the early 20th century. But as has been pointed out earlier on this thread, there was much less waste in those days, and its composition was quite different.
As Lloyd and others have shown, refuse disposal and recycling are big subjects and require careful consideration and planning in this "throwaway" age. Incineration is becoming common, but the consequent generation of "greenhouse" gases must be taken into account. On the other hand, the landfill option is becoming more and more expensive. Some kind of energy generation from waste materials must be beneficial, but the economics of it all are very complex. The old adage "reduce, re-use, recycle" still makes a lot of sense to me.
In my home town, every household has two big wheelie bins, one for garbage and one for recyclables. These are emptied fortnightly by driver-only vehicles. I'm not sure exactly how the recyclables are processed, but anecdotal evidence suggests that much of the stuff ends up in landfill anyway. An anomaly is that "green" (garden) waste is not permitted in either bin, so must be carted to the tip by the householder (difficult for those like me who don't own a car), or broken up and composted (impossible for the woodier material). Garden fires are not allowed because of the bushfire risk, though this is much lower in Tasmania than on the "mainland".
That looks like an interesting report, Aidan. I might even read it some time! A quick browse appears to confirm that Birmingham was indeed "greener" in the early 20th century. But as has been pointed out earlier on this thread, there was much less waste in those days, and its composition was quite different.
As Lloyd and others have shown, refuse disposal and recycling are big subjects and require careful consideration and planning in this "throwaway" age. Incineration is becoming common, but the consequent generation of "greenhouse" gases must be taken into account. On the other hand, the landfill option is becoming more and more expensive. Some kind of energy generation from waste materials must be beneficial, but the economics of it all are very complex. The old adage "reduce, re-use, recycle" still makes a lot of sense to me.
In my home town, every household has two big wheelie bins, one for garbage and one for recyclables. These are emptied fortnightly by driver-only vehicles. I'm not sure exactly how the recyclables are processed, but anecdotal evidence suggests that much of the stuff ends up in landfill anyway. An anomaly is that "green" (garden) waste is not permitted in either bin, so must be carted to the tip by the householder (difficult for those like me who don't own a car), or broken up and composted (impossible for the woodier material). Garden fires are not allowed because of the bushfire risk, though this is much lower in Tasmania than on the "mainland".
artistmike
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
I remember these electrics well so unlike the noisy vehicles used today.
Here's my memory of them somewhere in Alum Rock.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/saltleyman/4746904252/
I remember these electrics well so unlike the noisy vehicles used today.
Here's my memory of them somewhere in Alum Rock.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/saltleyman/4746904252/
Think this should go on here, it's an interesting vehicle. I'm assuming it's a dustcart as it looks like the one in the link above. Viv.
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
Well I suppose if you burnt the lot and used the energy produced; that would be a form of recycling except for the problem with greenhouse gasses today. A lot of the waste would have already been burnt though in coal fireplaces in those days. Not big enough for the separated recycling around here now but what an elegant design. Similar to the milk delivery vehicles of another thread. I remember them well.
Well I suppose if you burnt the lot and used the energy produced; that would be a form of recycling except for the problem with greenhouse gasses today. A lot of the waste would have already been burnt though in coal fireplaces in those days. Not big enough for the separated recycling around here now but what an elegant design. Similar to the milk delivery vehicles of another thread. I remember them well.
dereklcg
master brummie
Re: Refuge Collecting Vehicles
It is as you thought a dust cart.as it goes a friend of mine well in his late 70s used to drive the said vechicle.
it is in dollman st b,ham sort of museum,it was renovated for a lord mayors show so i,m lead to believe,
a few years ago..regards dereklcg.
It is as you thought a dust cart.as it goes a friend of mine well in his late 70s used to drive the said vechicle.
it is in dollman st b,ham sort of museum,it was renovated for a lord mayors show so i,m lead to believe,
a few years ago..regards dereklcg.
Bill Parker
master brummie
I was watching a programme on BBC 4 about the ways we deal with our waste, a few days ago. Birmingham has a really efficient method of delaing with its refuse and reference has already been made about it in previous postings. Ferrous waste was removed by using magnets, paper was removed by sorting and the rest was burned, the resulting ash was used as a a buliding material and the heat fron the "destructors" ie the furnaces was used to produce electricity to power the battery powered refuse lorries, this was considered to be an ideal way of treating waste material.
One small problem with using battery powered refuse lorries was that as the batteries became exhausted the load got heavier unlike a milk float were the opposiite occurs, never the less the city was a paragon of using waste material for good use and today would have been seen as a paragon of carbon nutrality.
One small problem with using battery powered refuse lorries was that as the batteries became exhausted the load got heavier unlike a milk float were the opposiite occurs, never the less the city was a paragon of using waste material for good use and today would have been seen as a paragon of carbon nutrality.
farmerdave
master brummie
It was reported that during the year ended March 31st 1937, that the percentage of refuse collected by Birmingham Corporation electric vehicles (as opposed to non-electric vehicles) was 87.1. The collection cost per 1000 premises was £536 3s, against £727 12s per 1000 premises for the year 1922, when only 25.37% was collected by electric vehicles. The Department had the largest fleet, in 1937, of electric vehicles in any municipality in the country, 145 of these vehicles being in use. A number of petrol vehicles were employed in collecting refuse from certain areas situated on the outskirts of the city. The Birmingham Corporation Salvage Department was responsible for the removal and disposal of house refuse, the collection and disposal of certain trade refuse, the cleansing of markets and slaughterhouses, and the emptying of cesspools. Photographs of an electric and two petrol refuse collection vehicles in 1937 are attached. Dave.
oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
I've seen an explanation on the forum somewhere but can't find it at the moment ... I always called them dustbins ...
Here's some magic ones in a forum pic ...
Here's some magic ones in a forum pic ...
Another forum pic I liked when I first saw it, a 'clutch' of 1960's girls are having a laugh, I thought clutches were only in cars. Then there are 'miskins' and I think I can see two of them in the pic, but I never knew them as miskins. Anyway, the washing is drying nicely, and it's a happy pic....
The pic is amongst this lot https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=21690&p=422544#post422544
I should imagine it as something to do with the ash that was removed from the fire grate there was always a lot and it was very dusty.
sylviasayers
master brummie
My dad always called the dustbin the miskin. I think I read an article by Carl Chinn that miskin was used by Shakespeare so it is a very old description.
horsencart
master brummie
I saw this today it is one of those things that you cannot walk away without taking a photo, so my Question is "Just how many men does it take to empty a drain"
the answer is Eight if you include the driver https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/22089594264/in/dateposted/
the answer is Eight if you include the driver https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/22089594264/in/dateposted/
No date or location for this one. Maybe 1940s ? Viv.
No didn't know Ell. Must be dreadful. Viv.