Ravenhurst Mansion c1650 and St Anne's Convent

[Aidan]

Recently came across the attached etching "The Prospect of Birmingham from Ravenhurst (near London Road) on the South East part of Town" which I thought would be of interest.

The artist Wenceslaus (Wenzel) Hollar Bohemus (July 13, 1607 - March 25, 1677), was a Bohemian etcher. He was born in Prague, and died in London, being buried at St Margaret's church, Westminster.

The original etching is held by the University of Toronto and their site has a magnifier function https://link.library.utoronto.ca/ho...40&query=Hollar_k_0940&size=large&type=browse

I assume from the direction (SE prospect) and elevation (near Camp Hill) that the Ravenhurst in question is not Harborne but Highgate, around Ravenhurst Street but the etymology (Ravens on a wooded hill) would suggest it a common name. Also the Ravenhurst Estate was not set out until about 100 years later, so either the artist was wondering over undeveloped hills or whether there was an earlier residence is an interesting question.

Apart from confirming the location, I wondered if anyone can spot any known landmarks. E.g. The church on the left with the 4 small towers is obviously St Martins, but what is the church-like structure on the hillock to the right? I am sure there is much more to be unearthed...

(Lost image replaced)

 

[Aidan]

...I think it might be the original Chapel of Ease, St John on Chapel House Street, Deritend of which Dent could only provide a conjectural view (attached). From Ravenhurst St, Chapel House St is 0.5m NNW and St Martin's is 1m NW....

(Lost drawing replaced)

 

[Aidan]

I think Buck published a similar view (although perhaps taken from what is now the five Ways area) in 1731 (section attached) showing St Martin's on the left and St John's Chapel Deritend rather built around now on the right (numbered 16) and just before it was rebuilt in 1735.

Thanks to Mikejee for this view, its key and the link.
Lost image replaced

 

[Rupert]

Have not seen these exact drawings before but think that #3 is fairly easy to identify and I think that it is a view from the windmill mound at Holloway Head or approx.. You can see the Rea going down and under Deritend bridge and beyond is Coopers windill. The straight line is where the leat led to Astericks square mill pond and you can see the buildings on Mill Lane. The tree shown in the foreground looks familiar.

The old Manor House is clearly drawn with the circular moat around it below St Martins. Another moat circles the rectory? to the left of this and were connected by a water channel I believe.

Just to the right of the spire you can see another windmill which may have been in the Nechells / Dartmouth area. Perhaps the numbers indicate.

As you say St Johns would have been off to the right of the bridge in amongst the buildings there. Great picture this one.

The first picture is more difficult but there are others similar and I believe it is looking from south of the Rae up to the town. Since there is no Coopers windmill it may be upstream from Deritend bridge…no Bradford Street shown then…as you say maybe from the Camp Hill area. It might also be from down stream of the Bridge though which would put the bridge out of view on the left of the picture. Coopers windmill is not always shown in these pictures.

 

[Aidan]

Rupert - Thanks for playing!

Holloway Head - I should have guessed, not Five ways, is the vantage point most likely.

The Prospect Sketches that Mike shared on the Birmingham (Picture) Panoramas Thread are most interesting and packed with detail. The two Windmills are sadly not annotated but the one nearest the spire is in the direction of Curdworth, some 10mile distant, annotated-#9 on the view. The distinctive tower of the Chapel of St John in Deritend can be clearly seen just below the number 16 and is annotated as such. It is not clear whether the buildings adjacent are part of the structure or blocking the view of the base

However, I believe that the c1650 view and the c1731 view are rare representations of St John Deritend as well as the development of Birmingham 300-350 years ago. If you know of any similar Prospects I would be most interested

 

[Charlie]

These are great pictures Aiden! Really interesting - thanks for posting them (and the info).

 

[Aidan]

Cheers Charlie - I am happy if they are of interest and if we can learn more about them

 

[Aidan]

I see it was used by William Hutton in his 1830 "The history of Birmingham" https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eF8JAAAAIAAJ&vq=panorama&pg=PA14-IA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Neville Philpott]

These are the sort of images i feel should be available in the shop at BMAG, but unfortunately they aren't.

Really interesting, i suppose they are a bit stylised but it does give some idea of how the 'town' may have looked.

Thanks for posting Aidan..

 

[Aidan]

Thanks Neville - the Hutton version has been badly stylized from the version in post-#1. I agree it would be great to have detailed copies of these old views of Birmingham, but then again some of the joy is finding and interpreting them as a team on the forum too

 

[Aidan]

Just found an eBook of where this etching "The Prospect of Birmingham from Ravenhurst (near London Road) on the South East part of Town" was published - Dugdale's 1656 Antiquities of Warwickshire, page 655 - https://www.archive.org/stream/antiquitiesofwar00dugd#page/n5/mode/2up

 

[mikejee]

Some further information on Ravenhurst , (from an article by Benjamin Walker in Birmingham Archeological Transactions vol 55 (1931))
The Ravenhurst Estate was about 20.5 Acres. A ( modified ) plan by Samuel Bradford in 1748 is below.


At the time the House was occupied by Richard Lowe . The first mention of the house was in Bordesley Manor rolls in 15.11. The present Lowe St comes from the family name. Hurst in a name refers to a hillock, knoll or bank, particularly where the ground is sandy., and the land was sandy (viz. Sandt Lane) and the house was in an elevated position.. In fact there was a considerable problem caused in the area by persons removin g sand for their own purposes and in 1687 a law was amde that people so removing sand could be fined 10 shillings for each offence, though this did not stop the practice. the sand taken was usually used for metal casting purposes, and apparently this local sand was particularly suited for that purpose. One convicted person was Richard Dolphin of the foul Lake Bordesley. I do wonder where that was.
Details of ownership of the house over the years is given in the article

 

[Vivienne14]

A long history about this house. Later history shows it became attached to St Anne's Convent and included, at one point, a home for incurable females.

I expect the house stood approximately where St Annes School now stands, bounded by Ravenhurst, Lowe, Broom and Bradford Streets.



Source of all material: British Newspaper Archive

 

[Vivienne14]

A view of the convent with the house alongside - posted by pudding on another thread.

 

[Morturn]

Just wondering about what they mean by incurable females?

 

[Vivienne14]

Don't know Mort. Makes you wonder as there's no mention of hospital, nursing home or any medical care aspect. Perhaps mental health ?

The photos below were all posted by the late Speedwing on the Rivers: River Rea thread: To quote Speedwing from that thread:


During October 1940 German bombs fell on houses fronting Bradford Street and the immediate area, damaging what had become St Anne’s Convent requiring both of Pugin’s structures and Ravenhurst to be demolished.

 

[Pedrocut]

Hysteria ??

 

[Vivienne14]

Presumably you're referring to this condition. Pedro :

an old-fashioned term for a disorder characterized by neurological symptoms often accompanied by exaggeratedly or inappropriately emotional behaviour, originally attributed to disease or injury of the nervous system and later thought to be functional or psychological in origin.

 And the reference to St Camillus would be because the saint tended sick and their spiiritual care. I don't think the home for incurable women was around for long, they were obviously struggling to support it in 1867.

 

[Pedrocut]

Maud Casey, author | Official website | City of Incurable Women

Details about the novel The City of Incurable Women, by Maud Casey.

www.maudcasey.com

 

[Vivienne14]

This report of the fund raising bazaar for the home for women suggests "incurable" in the sense of terminal illnesses. Pity the reporter didn't describe more about the work of St Camullis's home.

A large industrial school for girls was also on the site.




Source: British Newspaper Archive

 

[Radiorails]

Saint Camillus de Lellis | Franciscan Media

Saint Camillus de Lellis was rejected by the Capuchins because of an ongoing medical condition. Against the advice of a friend, he founded a religious community on his own to care for the sick. These men proved to be invaluable during the plague, caring for the worst of its victims.

www.franciscanmedia.org

st. Camillus de Lellis

 

[Morturn]

It seems it was a generic term for quite a few chronic conditions, the hospital at Jaffray Hospital in Birmingham was one such place too. Further details here https://historic-hospitals.com/2015...ables-the-former-longmore-hospital-edinburgh/

 

[Vivienne14]

This article (last paragraph) in attached extracts suggests the old house "mansion" was demolished before the WW2 bombing, sometime around 1900. So it must have been the convent buiding (the taller one) that was affected in WW2.



Source: British Newspaper Archive


The convent in 1933, sometimes referred to as Ravenhurst Convent as well as St Anne's Convent. By this time the old house/mansion would have gone.

Source: Birmingham.gov.uk