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Ravenhurst c1650

Aidan

Aidan

master brummie
Recently came across the attached etching "The Prospect of Birmingham from Ravenhurst (near London Road) on the South East part of Town" which I thought would be of interest.

The artist Wenceslaus (Wenzel) Hollar Bohemus (July 13, 1607 - March 25, 1677), was a Bohemian etcher. He was born in Prague, and died in London, being buried at St Margaret's church, Westminster.

The original etching is held by the University of Toronto and their site has a magnifier function https://link.library.utoronto.ca/ho...40&query=Hollar_k_0940&size=large&type=browse

I assume from the direction (SE prospect) and elevation (near Camp Hill) that the Ravenhurst in question is not Harborne but Highgate, around Ravenhurst Street but the etymology (Ravens on a wooded hill) would suggest it a common name. Also the Ravenhurst Estate was not set out until about 100 years later, so either the artist was wondering over undeveloped hills or whether there was an earlier residence is an interesting question.

Apart from confirming the location, I wondered if anyone can spot any known landmarks. E.g. The church on the left with the 4 small towers is obviously St Martins, but what is the church-like structure on the hillock to the right? I am sure there is much more to be unearthed...

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Birmingham from ravenshurst.jpg
 
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I think Buck published a similar view (although perhaps taken from what is now the five Ways area) in 1731 (section attached) showing St Martin's on the left and St John's Chapel Deritend rather built around now on the right (numbered 16) and just before it was rebuilt in 1735.

Thanks to Mikejee for this view, its key and the link.
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panorama south west prospect birmingham B.jpg
 
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Have not seen these exact drawings before but think that #3 is fairly easy to identify and I think that it is a view from the windmill mound at Holloway Head or approx.. You can see the Rea going down and under Deritend bridge and beyond is Coopers windill. The straight line is where the leat led to Astericks square mill pond and you can see the buildings on Mill Lane. The tree shown in the foreground looks familiar.

The old Manor House is clearly drawn with the circular moat around it below St Martins. Another moat circles the rectory? to the left of this and were connected by a water channel I believe.

Just to the right of the spire you can see another windmill which may have been in the Nechells / Dartmouth area. Perhaps the numbers indicate.

As you say St Johns would have been off to the right of the bridge in amongst the buildings there. Great picture this one.

The first picture is more difficult but there are others similar and I believe it is looking from south of the Rae up to the town. Since there is no Coopers windmill it may be upstream from Deritend bridge…no Bradford Street shown then…as you say maybe from the Camp Hill area. It might also be from down stream of the Bridge though which would put the bridge out of view on the left of the picture. Coopers windmill is not always shown in these pictures.
 
Rupert - Thanks for playing!

Holloway Head - I should have guessed, not Five ways, is the vantage point most likely.

The Prospect Sketches that Mike shared on the Birmingham (Picture) Panoramas Thread are most interesting and packed with detail. The two Windmills are sadly not annotated but the one nearest the spire is in the direction of Curdworth, some 10mile distant, annotated-#9 on the view. The distinctive tower of the Chapel of St John in Deritend can be clearly seen just below the number 16 and is annotated as such. It is not clear whether the buildings adjacent are part of the structure or blocking the view of the base

However, I believe that the c1650 view and the c1731 view are rare representations of St John Deritend as well as the development of Birmingham 300-350 years ago. If you know of any similar Prospects I would be most interested
 
These are great pictures Aiden! Really interesting - thanks for posting them (and the info).
 
These are the sort of images i feel should be available in the shop at BMAG, but unfortunately they aren't.

Really interesting, i suppose they are a bit stylised but it does give some idea of how the 'town' may have looked.

Thanks for posting Aidan..
 
Thanks Neville - the Hutton version has been badly stylized from the version in post-#1. I agree it would be great to have detailed copies of these old views of Birmingham, but then again some of the joy is finding and interpreting them as a team on the forum too
 
Some further information on Ravenhurst , (from an article by Benjamin Walker in Birmingham Archeological Transactions vol 55 (1931))
The Ravenhurst Estate was about 20.5 Acres. A ( modified ) plan by Samuel Bradford in 1748 is below.

Ravenhurst_Estate_2.jpg
At the time the House was occupied by Richard Lowe . The first mention of the house was in Bordesley Manor rolls in 15.11. The present Lowe St comes from the family name. Hurst in a name refers to a hillock, knoll or bank, particularly where the ground is sandy., and the land was sandy (viz. Sandt Lane) and the house was in an elevated position.. In fact there was a considerable problem caused in the area by persons removin g sand for their own purposes and in 1687 a law was amde that people so removing sand could be fined 10 shillings for each offence, though this did not stop the practice. the sand taken was usually used for metal casting purposes, and apparently this local sand was particularly suited for that purpose. One convicted person was Richard Dolphin of the foul Lake Bordesley. I do wonder where that was.
Details of ownership of the house over the years is given in the article
 
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