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Rag Market

  • Thread starter Thread starter harley
  • Start date Start date
Hi all
I remember a guy called Wally Gingole, I don't know if I have spelt his name right,
but I know he was a friend of my uncles. He used to sell cottons, sowing stuff, zips and
all that kind of stuff, a bit of a character if I remember, as we're a few in the market.
happy days.

Regards stars
 
I am fairly sure one family who sold crockery were the Lees family (there were two as I remember, one at the top and one at the bottom of the market), my dad who was born in 1908 said he had a part time job when he was young with one of the families selling crockery. When we were young it was a cheap form of entertainment to go to the Rag Market and the Bull Ring open air market. When we were moving into our first home I bought material for curtains from "Jeff the Lad from Lancashire". Also there was a chap who sold off cuts of carpet in the Rag Market, some quite small pieces, hubbie and I bought some and stuck them together with Copidex glue to make mats. Also we bought our shoes there. Memories memories.
 
I wonder what conclusions can be drawn about us when we rave about a Rag Market that purveyed used clothing and a Market Hall that would only ever have been bombed out without a roof, to all on here; prior to it's final demolition. Both buildings have been gone 'for ever' now and open air stalls for recycling used goods is fine IMO. However, getting on board with the latter day constructions is tough. So is the whole idea of cell phone in the ear culture. Hmmm... better leave it there...the computer and web are fine....I think.
The old rag market from what I remember would have been a section of a building, built right on the Manor House site (east of Jamaica Row) and over the manor moat...so 'ground zero' for Brum.

Ah..yes, just reminded me to go to the local Habitat Re-store shop for a piece of used ABS pipe. The store built on a site that was...well...just only dirt...ever. Might have had a tree or two before we all got to it...eons ago.
 
hi taverens
you are quite correct the old man at the bottom end of the hall at the bottom left he always had a stick in his hand and banging and shouting and juggerling his wares of crockery throwing plates right into the air the other did not do that she kept hers all on shelves but she would call out her wares as wewll but throwing them up also the birds family was there with the old pram for years selling old clothes she was the death old lady from spring hill and st marks street when she died the grand son took over but he started to sell bottled perfume and house old soaps and item ;for many years right up to the end of the days of the rag alley and there was a posh lady selling glass she eventualy packed up as well the same time she used to live in weoly castle in the sixties i met her about four years ago now down here in worcestershire working the high clas perfume in debenams i spoke to her she still looked classy and i told her so it made her day to know i recalled her from those many years ago in the fortys and fiftys best wishes Astonian;; alan;;
 
Hi Annie,forgive me if this has been asked many times before but are you the authour of chocolate girls etc ?
If so just wanted to say hi and tell you that my mom is a huge fan of your books.
No mean feat as she doesn't really enjoy reading-in fact i don't think i ever saw her read a book until she read yours!
Keep up the good work.
 
Yes that's me - thank you very much for telling me that - very kind of you. I'm glad your Mom likes the books and thanks for getting in touch.
best wishes, Annie
 
I love Annie's books to just reading Poppy Day one I missed. I loved My Daughter My Mother.
 
Hi Annie,
Thank you for your wonderful books, they are loved by many. As to the Rag Market, my father who was born in 1908, worked for a while when he was young for a family who sold crockery, he said they used to throw the crockery up in the air and slam the edge of the plates and saucers down on the board they had in front of them (apparently if you slam them down on their edges they don't break). When my husband and I were courting, with not much money we loved to go and watch the Lees crockery family perform, because that is what it was a performance. It was always a place to go for a mooch. My uncle had a stall down there in the 60's, he sold hearth companion sets and crockery as well as lots of other things.
 
I remember when they were demonstrating "run-resist" tights and they would get a nail file and run it down the inside of one leg.( It looks impressive but it's easy to do.)
There was a lady who kept her tiny dog on the counter in a shopping bag.
rosie.
 
One more question I'm still struggling with... IN all the pics/accounts of the Rag Market in the 1950s you can see all the racks and tables etc for things to be laid out on. The traders I have spoken to seemed to think that these only came in after the war and that in the early days (though how early I don't know!) everyone sold thier stuff off the floor or whatever they had - prams or makeshift tables etc. Can anyone remember this? Can you recall this changing. The nature of memory (and it being a veyr long time ago) makes it difficult to pin down quite when things happened.
 
When I used to go to the Rag both to sell and buy we had tables supplied in the late 60s early 70s. People used to say you don't know when you're well off we had to sell off the floor, but they didn't give me a date.
 
Thank you - that's helpful. It's very difficult to get any sort of dates for this sort of thing but the people spoke to who were traders seemed to think it changed after the war.
Best wishes,
Annie
 
HI ANNIE
Yes i can recall those days of the sellers having to use the concrete floor and some brought there own tables and some had clothes racks if they was selling coats
the dresses was on the floor and bricabac as well;the ones wth the tables was the lees family china and glass ware and they would bang loud and shout out
to catch the peoles attention ;and he would shook them high in the air and people would be amazed and memorised by his act the parner wpould be calling out the prices it would have been around 1954 when they supplied the tables to the sellers and if you wanted a pitch either you sqeezed in betwen and use the floor
or you got a pitch but you had to be there before nine oclock other wise your pitch as gone to some one else
these people whom would come late looking for a pitch was called casuals sellers the other regulars was payed and booked at al times
but if you are not on your pitch for when the superintendat came around checking and colleting money from the casuals you lost it for that day unfortuately
there was a family called birds whom was from camden street hockley years ago mrs bird was deaf damage by the war years she used to sell ladies clothes and childrens clothes and the grand mother was the same deaf by the war years there family was there right up until the ending of the rag market
by then it was the grandon whom had taken over by ninety sixty he was selling clothes but later started to sell perfumes and soaps and etc
he lived in st marks street next to the wrights bag wash and dry cleaners at he junction of t marks street and king edwards rd
this priciple now applys to the today street markets you see around the country there stalls are proided by councils and private organiser whom promote farmers markets and any other stret marktets if you aint on time you loose that pitch for that day ;my inlaws was big market traders in birmingham
theyoperated in the bull ring and the corporation street market my cousin and his sibbling sadly the father tony whom was a previuos milk man for
midlands counties dary i have previuos mentioned for many years that was jonea ; from catherine street aston; the sons was selling clothes and watches and towels
and jonea was the first guy on the market was to buy a belt and make the measure for it to fit you hence after its like or proffession you introduce a money erner
peopl jump on the band wagon but tony bought into a bussines across the rd at the old beehive down below ground and got ladies to make towels of alsorts
of discription tea towels bath towels and bath towels for the lads they made alot of money thats why one of our members know of them and lived by one of them and he is tony junior he said he was dripping in gold and thats how he made is money i beleive he as moved from perry barr island wher he ran a vechicle hire on the island of perry barr and i think he now operated in sutton some where and thee other one now works at the birmingham air port
i actualy bumped into a lady a very smart looking lady also whom specialized in true cut glass peics she was very sopficticated lady
of the old rag market from the forys and fiftys in a very posh store here in worc its a well known high class stor across the country but i cannot mention the name
because it advertising but any way when the market finished she got a job on the shop foor selling there perfume i spotted her and spoke with her
and about her life on the rag market very intresting i found her best wishes Astonian
 
Hello Astonian,
Thank you very much indeed for all this - it's very interesting and helpful. The only thing I'd like to ask back is about the timing of the Rag Market. The people I talked to said that at one stage the market had fruit and veg sellers in from early morning until about midday when they would pack up, sweep up, the 'rag' sellers would move in, the gates shut for a bit and then they'd open up the market about 1pm. Again I wonder when this changed or if you remember that? My memories of the rag market much later ('80s) is that it was separate and just there... Thank you for all your help and the details you've told me so far!
Best wishes,
Annie
 
I have to say again, my memories are of the mid, late fifty's when you went to the "Rag", on Saturday mornings with mom , because you had to, very rare at this time for the working class to buy new, if we were the eldest , like me , and were the only boy, No Hand downs then that is the only place you could shop, very exciting though. Even when a teenager if you wanted new, you saved 5bob a week for as long as it took, many weeks to buy new clothes. On my birthday dear old mom and dad would maybe get a Provi cheque for some new shoes.
 
Hi paul
Nice to hear your memory of growing up and have not forgotten your true roots and values obvisiuos you had nice parents with true values
And remembering what decent and moral stannardsyour father had when in the force of the police
Paul on the subject of old provide, you would be surprised just how many people today are still using provide to get by for there needs
There is not no think wrong with it to feed and clothes your siblings and there is another one people are using and that his shopacheck
And provide and just bought shopacheck out they own them now but they are still keeping the names seperate
They was years ago s and u the big building behind the bulling years ago that's whom and where they started
And part of the consortium was welcome finnance and there is various company ysnow within the group
And all these are the grand sons of a one time Birmingham city director whom own all these business
And going back in time. He and his forefathers started off in the rag alley and his wife also done it set up the company s and. U
And eventual started the named business. Called welcome finaceualy business for top of the rage for cars through out the country
You can learn about the history through the internet you would beamazedhow they all come about
Paul I got your email late last night I found it very interesting I will come back to you with more info soon
Have since day best wishes Alan astonian
 
Hi Alan just read your message, hope you and yours are well, yes the old Rag, was an interesting and a place of major importance when I was young, and you say folk still have to use the Provident cheque system of financial help, that makes me very sad. I thought the world had moved on in the last 50 years, but it seems not. Yes, I was brought up in a poor working class household, but we had fantastic parents, how they managed at all now I look back is a wonder to me, but they did. Do you know that if you have Love, in a family no matter how poor, life always seems so much better, than a well off family with none. cheers Now Paul.
 
It does not have to be one or the other Paul, does it?
Rag markets are called flea markets here and, more and more, auctions fill the bill...even on-line. I was dragged around the Rag Market as a kid and have to admit that I personally hated it. A grimey place with the smell of ancient barns and crooked sounding spiel. I seem to think that it was one of the last double door openings on the left, down Jamaica Row.
Anyway, we look forward to going around flea markets now and auctions can be a venue for great savings on 'good as new' furniture and lamps and such. Not clothing and shoes though. The Sally Ann seems to have that in hand....hmm and Value Village and Habitat For Humanity Re-Source for used hardware.
 
I think in equal proportion or better so with adequate funds. Why would it not be so. Not having much and being brought up in a 'back to back' environment is nothing to hide from. It's the luck of the draw. "Ah yes but we had comradeship and joy and everyone pulled together". Not a common experience I would have thought and yet the words, or something like, have been said before. As a ground leveller if you like. Not needed I think. Love and happiness in mean circumstances are triumphs indeed but do not preclude the critique of the same circumstances...for me anyway. I rail, I'm afraid but still enjoy the small things in life. This might be the find of a serviceable used plumbing part rather than er..garment. Shudder.
 
Hi Annie
In answer to your question about the fruit and veg in the rag alley if you can recall the very old bull ring with the hawkers
Way back in the good old days where the barrow boys walking down past the old market hall going down the hill
All next to each other all shouting out with there hands out stretched with there fruits in there hands
Here you are my love try these all had the same products oranges grapes bananas , all out shouting each other
And right down and through the Jamaica row and all the back street including all around the rag alley and out side the old Smithfield
Meat market hall and they shared it with the fruit and veg at that time until they built a new market hall and seperated the meat and veh whole sealers
On the subject of the tin pan alley rag market and Rupert way back in time this was also called the flea market by a certain amount of the population
Of Birmingham people by the middle classes and of the poor quarters of. The back to backs in them olden days
And Annie yes they did share a small portion of the rag alley with area small fruits and veg sellers these was the small time hawkers
Whom only sold them part time and people like a gentleman named jack Kelly whom was well known around the areas for selling
Fruit and veg around the pubs of Aston Ladywood and edbaston and of street corners of ickneld street Shockley
No/one knew where jack came from today there is still one or two of these guys still knocking around I personally know of one
Whom comes to the car boots of studley hams hall and the wobble car boot in stour. Port on these week ends with his spuds and fruit and veg
But getting back on track in the rag alley they had to used the left hand side of the hall for the hawkers of fruit and veg and the other three quarters
Of the hall was clothing and a variety of goods which started at 6 o'clock in the morning and you had to register to get a pitch regular
And assigned spot if not in your postion by 8 o'clock it went to an casual seller whom would turn up and hope to get a spot to del there clothes
And I can tell you at the end of the day or in fact in the early morning of these days you would see quite area people especially old lady's lainded
With there big push chairs and big prams pushing along pershore red to get to the alley like wise you would see them walking back home with there pile of old rags
Eventually the hawkerrs was stopped and KT was just clothes and shoes and China and jewelry you would always by a knock of price of jewelry from there
It was out side the frontage of the rag alley and down the side of all exits that the fruit sellers out side had to sweep up
At the end of the day for the rag alley peoples arrivals as the whole sealers used to stand out side and around the rag alley
You could buy the huge big hands of bananas for a shilling they was giagantic believe me there was loads of these sellers trying to out bid each other
Some looking like a half box of bananas these was the one whom had to sweep up
I also remember Kenny whom just mentionioned is name I know a lot of the old market traders from way back because I used to run the pub in the bull ring
And open ear.y for them to get a cup of tea and sarnies and through out the day they would pop in for a quick sarnie or a pint
If any of them recall cow boy from off the market I thinkkenny should best wishes to each and every one astonian,,,,,,,
 
Regarding sewing, there are still stalls in the Rag Market selling beautiful fabrics. I don't know if the "Fancy Silk Store" is still around, I know they moved from the Bull Ring to a road nearby.
rosie.
 
I remember the rag market well, visited almost every Saturday with my mom. I used to get my shoes from there in the 60's, second hand of course. Almost everything was sold there, sweets, clothes, shoes, haberdashery, jewellery......................I loved the man at the entrance who displayed his tea sets in large wicker baskets and was extremely good at throwing plates in the air and catching them along his arm. I also remember the indoor market at the Bull Ring and the stall that used to sell live chicks. I was always fascinated by it and wondered who would buy them and why, I soon found out when my friend bought one for sixpence and took it home. She raised the chick keeping it warm by the open fire. Happy days!






Names of interest: Goodwin, Forster, Hipkiss, Starkey, Jones, Payne
 
Thank you Barmybrummy! Great descriptions. Just wondering if you or anyone remembers exactly which year the Rag Market moved into the bus station (Midland Red I think) while they were building the new one? I understand it was in the early 60s - does anyone know more exactly please?
Best wishes,
Annie
 
I don't know exactly Annie but I would say it was more late 90's than 60's when it moved to the Bus Station.
I loved the old building, the new one has no "atmosphere". In the old one there was always a sort of anticipation of finding bargains amongst the heaps of old clothes and jewellery, and triumph when you did!!
Whenever I needed clothes as a teenager (long ago!!) the Rag Market was the first place to look as I enjoy "make-do and mend".
rosie.
 
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