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Pub in Key Hill?

Phil
1871 census
John Floyd head 43 publican born birmingham
Caroline Floyd wife 51 born worcester
Henry Mason son in law, 28, carraige lamp maker born birmingham
Caroline Mason wife 27 born birmingham
Caroline A. Mason daughter. 2 born birmingham
Henry I Mason, son 7 months born birmingham
Mary thornton 13 general servant born birmingham

1891 census
Frederick W.Drew 29 publican born birmingham
Jane E.Drew wife 28 born birmingham
Could I correct saying that “the cop” was crossed out. It was accidentally put in at no 19. this was crossed out and it was inserted at no 20

Directories give:
Thomas White 1867
John Floyd 1868-1872
Thomas Baker 1873
John Bird 1876-1878
Mrs Sarah Bird 1879-1880
Thomas Greenway 1882
Mrs Elizabeth Dance 1883
Samuel Shaw -1894
Frederick Drew 1888 -1867
1899 building not listed, after this it was a shop.

So you’ve got your “Bird” in the hand !!
Mike
 
Thanks again Mike,
The John Bird you show as occupier of The Cop in 1876-1878 can't be the John Bird I'm looking for, he was born about 1867. That would make publican John about 10 years old. oops!

I've found every thing else about him except for where he was born. Never mind, I'll keep looking.

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks.
Cheers!
Phil
 
hi phil..have you looked on the 1871 census for john bird...it should tell you where he was born...also maybe the john bird that mike found at the the cop pub 1876 to 1878 could he have been a rellie of john bird the younger.. just a thought.

lyn
 
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Astoness said:
hi phil..have you looked on the 1871 census for john bird...it should tell you where he was born...also maybe the john bird that mike found at the the cop pub 1876 to 1878 could he have been a rellie of john bird the younger.. just a thought.
lyn
Click to expand...

Hi Lyn,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have searched every where for my great grandfather's birth details. Here's a couple of threads I started some time ago.

https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28077

https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28732

I was hoping the "Birds" associated with The Cop in Key Hill was going to give me a lead. Perhaps they are related but I can't prove it at the moment. It's driving me bonkers. I been search, off and on, for about a year.
Phil
 
I am not sure if this is connected but its from the Memorial Inscriptions at Key Hill done by Dick Empson.

Section I grave no 618

John Bird who departed this life April 1st 1878 aged 62 years. Sadly the inscription is not legible. Also Sarah Bird beloved wife of the above who departed this life November 2nd 1892 aged 78 years. Also Albert Allen grandson of the above who departed this life October 13th 1899 aged 32 years."Whilst lost to sight to memory never dead" Also of Tom Bird the youngest son of J & S Bird who died January 16th 1900 aged 44 years."Gone but not forgotten" Also of Elizabeth Jenkins died June 15th 1904 aged 69 years. Notes John Bird was licenced victuallar at the Old Abbey Inn, Lodge Road, All Saints where he lived with his wife Sarah 55, two daughters and two sons Tom 19 and Joseph 17 (both Jewellers). All the family had been born in Birmingham. 5' 6" gothic headstone base kerbs and flat stone. Extant memorial badly weathered.

I would imagine the last piece of info is from the 1871 census.
 
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There is a John Bird in the 1871 census, at house 2 Deritend Place, High St Deritend (or at least tha’s what it looks like:
Edward Burcole (?) head 71 whitesmith born aston
Margam Burcole (?) wife 70 born Shrewsbury
Charles Burcole (?) son 19 housepainter
Thomas Bird son in law, widower 35 carpenter born Birmingham
Margam Bird, granddaughter 12 Margam born Birmingham
John Bird grandson 5 Margam born aston

Mike
 
I posted the inscription because I think its this family posted by Phil B in post #20

 
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Wendy said:
I am not sure if this is connected but its from the Memorial Inscriptions at Key Hill done by Dick Empson.

Section I grave no 618

John Bird who departed this life April 1st 1878 aged 62 years. Sadly the inscription is not legible. Also Sarah Bird beloved wife of the above who departed this life November 2nd 1892 aged 78 years. Also Albert Allen grandson of the above who departed this life October 13th 1899 aged 32 years."Whilst lost to sight to memory never dead" Also of Tom Bird the youngest son of J & S Bird who died January 16th 1900 aged 44 years."Gone but not forgotten" Also of Elizabeth Jenkins died June 15th 1904 aged 69 years. Notes John Bird was licenced victuallar at the Old Abbey Inn, Lodge Road, All Saints where he lived with his wife Sarah 55, two daughters and two sons Tom 19 and Joseph 17 (both Jewellers). All the family had been born in Birmingham. 5' 6" gothic headstone base kerbs and flat stone. Extant memorial badly weathered.

I would imagine the last piece of info is from the 1871 census.
Click to expand...

Hi Wendy,
How interesting that you can find this just from a headstone.
However, my great grandfather John Bird died in 1895 at his home, 29 Bartlett’s Building Key Hill, and was buried in Witton Cemetery but unfortunately there is no grave to view.
This other John Bird could still be related but as yet, I haven't found a connection. It could be just a coincidence that they both lived in Key Hill.
Thanks
Phil
 
mikejee said:
There is a John Bird in the 1871 census, at house 2 Deritend Place, High St Deritend (or at least tha’s what it looks like:
Edward Burcole (?) head 71 whitesmith born aston
Margam Burcole (?) wife 70 born Shrewsbury
Charles Burcole (?) son 19 housepainter
Thomas Bird son in law, widower 35 carpenter born Birmingham
Margam Bird, granddaughter 12 Margam born Birmingham
John Bird grandson 5 Margam born aston

Mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,
I too found this one. I know it's hard to read but the family's name is Bardell not Burcole and Thomas Bird married Elizabeth Bardell, she later died, they had a son, John. Thomas re-married in 1871ish to Louisa Lyons.
John is still alive on the 1901 census living with his stepmom Louisa. My great grandfather died in 1895, Thomas, his dad, must have died by this time.

The problem is using the census records I've found a few John Birds, born about 1867, with a father named Thomas but without his mother's name, I cannot identify which is the right one.

John's full name is John Edward Bird but the census records don't always show the second name.

My strongest contenders at the moment are 2 family’s I've found from Dudley, see attached 1871 and 1881 census records. They could be both the same family if John's mother, Mary, died or moved away before the 1881 census.
I will have to check the parish records to see if these John’s were baptised John Edward. This means I'll have to go to Dudley archives office in Mount Pleasant Street, Coseley.
Unless of course you know someone who has access to parish records.
Thanks anyway, nice try.
Phil
 
The Map you have here looks very much like one I posted on here regarding my 4 x great grandfather John Bartlett 1788 - 1858. John Bartlett owned Bartlett Buildings the property along with other property was put up for sale in 1881. You mention Phil B as being the original post.
 
I have posted this one before on the corner of Key Hill and Ickneild Street. I think it was The Bull.

Nortons_of_Key_Hill_2.jpg
 
thanks for posting that pic of the bull brumgum i did have that one but cant seem to find it...i cant quite make out the name of the landlord over the door...obviously him and his wife standing outside..

lyn
 
HI BRUMGUM;
Many thanks for that picture , it was a cracking picture from yester years as it was well well maintained in those days as i recal it from my time of life as a school kid and as an adult patronage as it was our regular haught my pals and me
i recall the couple very well indeed and the wall left to the poseing couple on the front steps leading to key hill just passing the door you
see was the out side toilets urinals for the men ; it was a little closett with a dingy ga matle above for the entrance to it
in the winter and dark nights you would not see the urinnals nor the person standing next to you in there summer nights and light nights was fine
on the subject of this pub;which was the bull as we all know from that day to this day it was on this site about three years ago
i also spoke about it in detail then ; and there was a picture of it ; but not like your gem its brillint the other one was not as good as this one ;
by te way they was a good hard working couple but when they left it went down the hill as we say in the trade ;
many thanks brum; best wishes Astonian;;;
 
Thank you for the photo of The Bull in its heyday. The photo I posted was taken before it's demolition in the 70's. The photo was taken by my cousin related to the Norton family, who's drapers shop was on the opposite side of the road to the pub. It is nice to see how it did look as my photo is rather sad.
 
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