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Proof on Marriage Certificate.

lynne webb

lynne webb

GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
On a marriage certificate from 1892 the groom is widowed. Would he have had to prove with a death certificate his status. I cant find a previous marriage at all. Thanks.
Lynne.
 
From personal experience around that time I would say no. One of my great aunts bigamously married in West Bromwich whilst her husband was still alive in Birmingham. Her cousin had asked her to sleep with him, having been separeted from her first husband for a year or two. In her naiveity she thought it would be OK if she got married first, so she did. I have both certificates as I didn't initially believe the family story until I had checked it out!

Maurice :cool:
 
Thanks Maurice, I was hoping that he did provide a death cert. at least I would have known he had been married before. I know he had one, maybe two children before he married my GG grandmother but with who I've only a rough idea. I'm the third in the family to try to work all this out, the other two gave up. I can see why. Thanks again
Lynne.
 
Hi Lynne,

Some of the larger churches were dealing with enormous numbers of weddings in a day. Because very few questions were asked, many of the parties were not local and had effectively eloped. When we see what goes on today with marriages to illegal immigrants, it's not surprising that a few bigamous or dodgy marriages slipped through the net.

I presume you've checked overseas, particularly military marriages. Also could he have married in Scotland or Ireland, the latter particularly if he served in the Army? If it's a common name, then you may never get to the bottom of it. :(

Maurice :cool:
 
Hi Maurice, I've only checked the England and Wales marriages. He seems to be a bit of a black sheep, the rest of the family were fairly easy to trace.
I dont know if he was in the military or ever left Birmingham. On the 1881 census he is married and his married sister in law is living with him and his wife. I've found the marriage of the sister in law,in Birmingham, giving her maiden name Burns, by 1891 I think another member found him and he was on his own, in January 1892 he married my G grandmother. On the 1901 census his son is with them, this son was not my G grandmothers. I hope this makes sense to you, I'm losing the plot I think.
Thanks Lynne.
 
Hi Suzanne, His name is John Guest b 1855. The ''first'' wifes name was either Elizabeth or Eliza Burns, I think. They had a son in 1885, John Francis I believe but I think there could have been a daughter as well in 1891 or 1892 but that was the year he married my G grandmother.. This is all too complicated for my brain.
Thanks
Lynne.
 
OK Lynne. There might be more of a chance with more people looking - or we could all end up confused also:)
 
Hi Lynne,

FMP turns up 6 possibilities in the Midlands as follows:-

3 Qtr 1872 Warwick to Eliza WALKER or Eliza BERRY Vol 6d Page 791
3 Qtr 1872 Stafford to Eliza NEILD Vol 6b Page 30
3 Qtr 1872 West Bromwich to Eliza HORTON Vol 6b Page 1073
1 Qtr 1876 Dudley to Eliza Ann BANKS Vol 6c Page 53
1 Qtr 1873 Aston to Annie Eliza CLIFT Vol 6d Page 338
4 Qtr 1877 Kings Norton to Agnes Eliza GRIFFITHS Vol 6c 800

You'll have to check whther any of these ladies died or whether they married someone else. At least you have a Midlands shortlist to start with! :)

I've assumed that he was at least 16 years old when he married and I have not checked beyond the supposed date of the first child.

Maurice :cool:
 
Thanks Maurice I'll check these names, I would have thought he was too young for some of the dates, but he seems a bit of ''jack the lad'' so I'm not ruling anything out. Thanks again.
Lynne.
 
Not sure if this will help ?? but in 1891 there is a John Wheelwright, with wife, Margaret and niece, Florence Guest, living in Tower Street, Birmingham
 
Thanks Lindyloo, I had seen that, it was the first I knew of her. I'm assuming,maybe wrongly, that she is John Guests daughter. No one in the family have ever heard anything about her. It all adds to the confusion... Thanks again.
Lynne.
 
Lynne,
Not sure if you are looking back more, but on 1871 census, there's a possible if you take his D-O-B as 1857 (this is the same as on the 1881 census you have mentioned), now if this is right you are going to like it, in view of next weeks brewey meet -
George Guest age 46 - Gunmaker
Eliza Guest - wife - age 43
Joseph - age 24 - gunmaker
William - age 20 - gun barrel smither
James -age 16 - gun filer
JOHN - age 14 - carpenters lad
Francis - age 12 - scholar
Ellen - age 10 - scholar
Address was 26 MOTT STREET
and you know where the brewery is!!!!!!!
May be the wrong one though :(((
Will look for some more after hubby is fed!
Sue
 
Sorry Sue, hes not mine. John Guests father was Henry, he was to do with Gold chains and pearl buttons. John didnt follow in the business. I've found a death for an Elizabeth Guest in 1889 aged 27, but that doesn't help with her maiden name so still no first marriage...Thanks for taking the trouble to look for me, it would have been nice to be near the brewery.
Lynne.
 
Hi Sue, no Henrys wife was Harriett, I know he had a business in New Town Row, He was born around 1821. Most of this family have been easy to trace, just my luck to be stuck with the awkward one.
Lynne.
 
See what you mean Lynne, but won't give up and I'm suresomeone will find them for you, they usually do!! Could be as easy as a poor census wrongly transcribed, like my family was.
Sue
 
Thanks Sue, I feel sure he married Elizabeth or Eliza Burns but cant find the marriage. It could be as Maurice said, somewhere outside of England or Wales, but he didn't seem to move out of Birmingham. Maybe they eloped but I probably will never know. Thanks again for your help, see you soon.
Lynne.
 
This is definitely a difficult one..Ive been searching for most of the day ( I love a challenge) but it has me stumped !! Thought I'd struck lucky with a John Guest b Birmingham 1855, in Rochdale with wife Sarah Ellen (was Duxbury) and son John, but they are to be found in the other census' after ...I havent come across John in 1891 on his own with son John yet though ?..I'll keep looking :)
 
Thanks Lindyloo, He's a pain, Skylark found one on his own in Muntz Street, but Ive tried to find son John without his father and nothing comes up for him either. I dont really know where else I can look for him. Any ideas will be most welcome. Thanks again.
Lynne
 
Just found John "GUST" in 1891, with son John. (possible enumerator error)
40 ct 11 Hospital Street.
John Gust, 33/5 ?, Lodger, Widower, Gun Maker, b. Birmingham
John Gust, 6, Lodger, b. Birmingham
 
This could be John junior in 1911...He is listed on fmp as John Francis GWERT, with wife Florence Elizabeth and son John Francis, but I checked marriages for Gwert and Gwent and none are showing..there is however a marriage between John Francis Guest and Florence Elizabeth Deer in the Dec quarter of 1908, Birmingham.
In the census, John is 26, a Gun Action Filer !! The family are boarding at the house of John Henry Ridley (?)..at 126 Bridge Street. :)
 
hi lindyloo..well done i couldnt find john sen with john junior on th 1891....like you i found them under the name of gwert on the 1911...never thought to look under gust lol....lynne will be pleased...

lyn
 
Thanks Lyn :) it took some doing.... but I wasn't going to bed till I'd found it :sleepy:
Presumably Lynne can now get John Francis' birth cert which should hopefully reveal his Mothers maiden name...
Lynne
 
hi lindy....yes with johns birth ref a copy of the cert should reveal his moms name.....i was up till 1 oclock last night still searching..:cry:

lyn.
 
Hi Lyn..thats great :) ..well worth the bleary eyes this morning !! Think it was about 2.15, when my head hit the pillow .. I am looking forward to seeing his Moms name if Lynne gets the cert !!
Lynne.
 
lindy we all want to know who john juniors mom was:D:D hopefully lynne will be on later to see these posts....
 
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