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Passages, Alleyways Gulletts and Snickets of Old Brum

Yet more from the camera of John Ball...this time around Suffolk Queensway and Severn Street....

Severn Street .jpg
Looking up Severn St showing the corner of The Grapes pub...

Suffolk Passage from JB St.jpg
suffolk Passage from John Bright Street

Suffolk St BRGoods Yard .jpg
Suffolk St old BR Goods Yard

Suffolk St looking up.jpg
Suffolk St, looking up...

Swallow Street frm Suffolk St.jpg
Swallow Street, from Suffolk Street
 
So do I Paul, especially for the cars and vehicles. Me or my mates or family had most of em at some time. Dad even built them Singers and Hillmans.. Anyway, a few more to savour...thanks be to John Ball once more..

Beak Street.jpg
Beak Street


Ethel Street.jpg
Ethel Street

Hinkley Street.jpg
Hinckley Street

St Judes Passage.jpg
St Jude's Passage

Station st.jpg
Station Street from the Victoria Pub
 
Some time ago I 'found' a new Passageway (to me) and pondered thus:

Was looking through Old Maps trying to locate a relative's house at 37 Moor Street, and to do this is largely hit and miss. Then I spotted this oddity. York Passage. Never heard of it, and would have no idea how to get to it, even if I had! Any comments folks? And I though Nelsons Passage was a cul de sac affair, never realised it came out in Moor Street?


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mikejee kindly responded :

Dennis
Where there is a X across a hatched area of a building , it means there was an opening underneath, and York passage would be accessable from high st, round a corner and also from Castle St. There are a lot of references in the press, usually as part of an advertisement for the York Passage Tea Warehouse.

So, having confined it to the 'map only' file, i was delighted when I thumbed through a new book (bought on John Ball's recommendation - Malcolm Keeley's "BIRMINGHAM BUSES"), and found this gem of a shot of the entrance to the very same - YORK PASSAGE...


York Passage 1948.jpg

The accompanying text to the photo was interesting, in as much as it mentions the Wythall Transport Museum...and I think our Lloyd is one of the founder/owners of same...?

York Passage text.jpg
 
This 1836 trade card is difficult to work out. The address shown on one of the stones in the foreground is No. 3 Peck Lane, New Street. It's advertising Radclyffes & Co, engravers and plate makers. The view certainly looks rather grand, unlike anything I imagined Peck Lane would look like given the horror stories you read about the place. Maybe it's a fictional view? Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1359058272.774967.jpg
 
Vivienne,

I don't thing the engraving is meant to portray Peck Lane, it's probably just showing off their work. The real Peck Lane would have looked more like this.
 

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Yes, I have looked at that engraving often and wondered if it was in fact meant to be Peck Lane. I suspect that we will never know but intreagueingly it could be similar to what the hill down to the Rea might have been and is the building on the left King Edwards. Not likely and the river or lake at the bottom looks bigger than ever seen and the railway bridge to nowhere..perhaps. Anyway, the top of Peck lane has not gone anywhere. It is still there open to the sky as far as I can tell...between two buildings. It was right at the corner where King Edwards School was and the building there now carries a round blue plaque indicating such. The Lane is just an un-named service alley now. Why not put the name of the lane back up...like Spiceal Street.
The picture of the old Jail...Brrr...is intreagueing too. Seems to look up towards New Street and perhaps the Jail was on the corner of the Froggary. Peck Lane led down to Pinfold Street and opposite at that point was The Pinfold. I wondered if they made paperclips or something there, but no, The Pinfold was a place for storing stray animals seemingly. So maybe that is what the name means. All mostly wiped out by New Street Station. Another lane that led down to Pinfold Street was Ethel Street that was shorter and close to the top of Pinfold Street...right by the recently spoke about Portugal House and Old/New Royal Hotel which, with the coach storing facilities and stabling both there and across New Street (Viv's recent old painting I think); must have been a very convenient place for well off families to stay when visting shops at christmas time and the theater next door.
 
You sure Rupert? In the engraving shot we have a sylvan setting complete with Temple like building, a ravine and an old mature Elm tree, plus a huge lake with a long viaduct in the far distance...don't sound like the worst slums of old Brum to me?
 
And whilst I'm here...how about a few more tasty John Ball shots of the old alleys and streets circa 1963...and was that a Pub just in shot in Edgbaston Street?

Dudley Street 1963.jpg
Dudley Street

Edgbaston Street 1963.jpg
Edgbaston Street

Moat Lane 1963.jpg
Moat Lane

New Meeting Street .jpg
New Meeting Street

Town Hall Music school.jpg
Chamberlain Square
 
You know the last Ball photo's are not history to me...they are photo's of the way it was when last there so the history part comes as a bit of a shock. They are history I suppose and fine pictures at that; showing as they do last vestiges of, maybe not a fine city to everyone, but to us it was. It was our home.
 
Yes, I have looked at that engraving often and wondered if it was in fact meant to be Peck Lane. I suspect that we will never know but intreagueingly it could be similar to what the hill down to the Rea might have been and is the building on the left King Edwards. Not likely and the river or lake at the bottom looks bigger than ever seen and the railway bridge to nowhere..perhaps. Anyway, the top of Peck lane has not gone anywhere. It is still there open to the sky as far as I can tell...between two buildings. It was right at the corner where King Edwards School was and the building there now carries a round blue plaque indicating such. The Lane is just an un-named service alley now. Why not put the name of the lane back up...like Spiceal Street.
The picture of the old Jail...Brrr...is intreagueing too. Seems to look up towards New Street and perhaps the Jail was on the corner of the Froggary. Peck Lane led down to Pinfold Street and opposite at that point was The Pinfold. I wondered if they made paperclips or something there, but no, The Pinfold was a place for storing stray animals seemingly. So maybe that is what the name means. All mostly wiped out by New Street Station. Another lane that led down to Pinfold Street was Ethel Street that was shorter and close to the top of Pinfold Street...right by the recently spoke about Portugal House and Old/New Royal Hotel which, with the coach storing facilities and stabling both there and across New Street (Viv's recent old painting I think); must have been a very convenient place for well off families to stay when visting shops at christmas time and the theater next door.

Thanks Phil for the drawing and for Rupert's and Dennis's comments on Radclyffe's engraving. Giving it a bit more thought, I think the engraved stones lying on the ground in the foreground might represent a derelict Peck Lane, whilst the enchanting view beyond was pure wishful thinking. Possibly all very symbolic. But we might never know of course. Pity though, as it would be nice to find an explanation. Viv.
 
Don't know if this helps Dennis, but the Edgbaston Street building in the photo post#849 which you think might be a pub has an ad for 'Toys' in the window. Maybe it was once a pub but changed use. Viv.
 
Don't know if this helps Dennis, but the Edgbaston Street building in the photo post#849 which you think might be a pub has an ad for 'Toys' in the window. Maybe it was once a pub but changed use. Viv.

Or could it be a shiny notice indicating parking for TAXIS? It appears to be stuck on a chequered pole identical to the road sign.
 
I think it's a TAXI sign too Richie. I must get Phil or mike to refereee, as there ain't a pub in Brum that they won't know! I also noticed the old S&U building that Gil Merrick was the MD of (did it sell furniture?), and the Ford Consul (blue on the left), my first car, which I had just struggled to buy in 63 (mine was older and Coral and white). Happy days indeed Rupert...plus a nice shot of the St Martin's Tavern, which was yet to meet it's fate..



Spiceal St St Martins Church  1887.jpg St Martins Tavern  Bull Ring  1970.jpg
 
Dennis
If you stretch the photo it shows that it says Tays. At 44 Edgebaston st in 1962 there was a butcher J.H.Tay.

Edgbaston2520Street25201963streched.jpg
 
Of course! I remember the name well. No idea why...they must have had other shops round Stechford perhaps?
 
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Well it might have been a butchers by the time that John Ball took his photos in the 60's but it started out in life as the Sydenham Hotel on the corner of Edgbaston St and Pershore St. I seem to remember when it was demolished the land was en-capsuled with advertising hoardings and it became a car park for S&U vans and other vehicles. By the way Dennis S&U did sell furniture and other household goods I'm sure they even had a clothing department. I think they mainly relied on credit sales.
 

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Phil
In the 1962 Kellys the Sydenham hotel is listed as 43, so probably the main part was the sydenham (at that time), with just a little shop in the front at one side
 
Mike

Yes it was definitely a separate shop and it had been for some time by the look of this earlier photo, but I still think it was part of the pub at one time. I can't make out the name on the window or I might have been able to date it.
 

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I thought it looked like Martin on the window, and it was F.W.Martin & co, gramophone dealers from 1921 to at least 1932 (didn't bother to search later) . In 1915 it was British Gramophone co
 
This is such a good thread, I started at the beginning tonight and got to page 24, so lots more to savour another day. Thanks guys and gals.

In Witton, and I guess lots of other districts, there were snickets between two roads and as kids we played tracking and hide and seek in them. They weren't straight they dog legged making them great to hide in.
 
Yes Di I agree with you about this thread. So much to mull over. I think the fact that many of the gullies etc are hidden (or may even now have disappeared) makes them all the more intriguing. When I first came across this thread it took me back to the gullies that ran between the roads of my childhood. These were not like the majority on this thread which are found tucked in between houses, shops, workshops and warehouses. I grew up in a 1930s suburb and they too had many gullies, but running parallel with the roads. All very geometric, unlike those in the city, which seem to have evolved in a more random way. Our gullies out in the suburbs were almost like open fields. Somewhere you could run wild. You could play all day by going from one to another without going on to the roads. Many of the gullies were banked up, so they offered even more opportunities for adventurous play. We played out there all day, no supervision, but in large groups, so we all looked after each other. There were trees and bushes, we learnt a lot about wildlife ( and ourselves!) and had a lot of fun in the process. I've never worked out why they were there. I can only assume it was for access, but not for motor cars as few people had one and there weren't many garages at the rear of houses. Looking on Google, these 'playgrounds' now all seem to be fenced off, I suppose for safety reasons. Viv.
 
We were the lucky one Viv, out all day with pur pals and not a care on the world.

I kust go and have a look on Google earth as the houses where I grew up are still there, I know the 'entry ' to our house now has a gate, it's possible the snickets have gates but they have to be there.
 
Here's a couple from the Birmingham Mail Vaults, before and after Needless Alley. In the 1950s shot there is what looks like a pub on the left with a sign featuring a Hereford Bull? I don't remember it. Only the Bier Kellar! Any idea what it was?


Needless Alley 1950s.jpgneedless alley now.jpg

Plus two more from our vaults...

Needless Alley 3.jpg Needless Alley 1893.jpg
 
Mike

Yes it was definitely a separate shop and it had been for some time by the look of this earlier photo, but I still think it was part of the pub at one time. I can't make out the name on the window or I might have been able to date it.

Bit late but...this will help...F.R.MARTIN?


Sydenham Hotel  Edgbaston St  1924.jpg
 
Interesting views of Needless Alley Dennis. My grandfather's sister worked at the Grand Sultan Divan in Needless Alley as a Nurserymaid to the owner/manager in 1871. Apparently it was a notorious bar and dancing saloon at that time. I wonder where that was in the Alley? I did start a thread some while ago on the "Sultan Divan".

Judy
 
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