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Passages, Alleyways Gulletts and Snickets of Old Brum
- Thread starter Dennis Williams
- Start date
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Hear hear Richie. Now, not sure if this old favourite has made an appearance here on this Thread, but this is another golden atmospheric oldie...captioned THE GATES. And the author, our old friend joseph McKenna writes "Leading off from No 6 SPICEAL STREET there was a narrow alley. At its centre there was an archway from which hung two gates. 'The Gates' is recorded in the Birmingham Rate Book of 1728, and Samuel Bradford shows it in his map of 1750 (enclosed). Sometime after 1780 the passage was absorbed into Spiceal Street and the original name forgotten."
Trouble with the accompanying photo though is the little girl is dressed quite 'modern' (circa early 1940s?), and I doubt this alley lasted after the Bull Ring and markets development of the late 1800s. I expect it has been discussed already on the Forum, and I bet mikejee and Phil have an opinion....but it's a great shot nonetheless...and if not Spiceal St..where was it taken??? Dated 1780 over the arch...
Trouble with the accompanying photo though is the little girl is dressed quite 'modern' (circa early 1940s?), and I doubt this alley lasted after the Bull Ring and markets development of the late 1800s. I expect it has been discussed already on the Forum, and I bet mikejee and Phil have an opinion....but it's a great shot nonetheless...and if not Spiceal St..where was it taken??? Dated 1780 over the arch...
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My comments before were (pause as he shuffles (he is suffering from a touch of gout at present) through files) then:
It is shown in 1890 below in red. The only mention of a name I can find is on the 1778 map, where it is called the Gates. It doesn't seem to be there in 1553, and seems to be the back entrance of the Nelson hotel in the early 19th century, and similar to the fish market in the later 19th century.
To add to this,below is a larger scale map of the same period which I did not have access to when i wrote the original
It is shown in 1890 below in red. The only mention of a name I can find is on the 1778 map, where it is called the Gates. It doesn't seem to be there in 1553, and seems to be the back entrance of the Nelson hotel in the early 19th century, and similar to the fish market in the later 19th century.
To add to this,below is a larger scale map of the same period which I did not have access to when i wrote the original
michael-lewis
Brummie babby
What was the name of the ansells pub please?
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Hi Jayell, yes, Westley's Row ran between Lower Priory and what is today Newton Street, and can be seen in both maps I posted. It was named after William Westley, the famous Birmingham architect and surveyor. Today the Row forms part of Dalton Street, whch was at one time called London Prentice Street. Some pics from the area...two of Dalton Street and three of Lower Priory.
Jayell
master brummie
Thanks Dennis. My Irish 2 x gt.grandparents lived in London Prentice Street. By the time I found this out and visited the area, there was only a small portion of Dalton Street left. Good to see the photos. I have seen one of them before, but of course in 1846 it would have looked very much different in LP Street!
Judy
Judy
What wonderful photos. The 1960s views are very familiar, especially this one of Dennis's earlier post of Cannon Street.
The Chinese restaurant on the right was The Clover in the late 70s. At the time of the photo, you can just see the vertical sign in Chinese and there's an English sign looks like "(Rice?) Bowl" perhaps. Went in there when it was The Clover many, many times, very dark interior. Food was probably rubbish by today's standards, but it was quite cheap. Some great photos in the last few posts and lots of interesting info too. Thanks Dennis. Viv.
The Chinese restaurant on the right was The Clover in the late 70s. At the time of the photo, you can just see the vertical sign in Chinese and there's an English sign looks like "(Rice?) Bowl" perhaps. Went in there when it was The Clover many, many times, very dark interior. Food was probably rubbish by today's standards, but it was quite cheap. Some great photos in the last few posts and lots of interesting info too. Thanks Dennis. Viv.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Yes, thanks Viv and Jayell for your appreciation. I'm afraid to say I have no idea which businesses or buildings were connected by the bridges, I have often wondered that myself. Maybe one of our resident sleuths will know?
Meanwhile, back to John Ball's lovely photos...this time mainly round the back of the Council House...
Barwick Street from the corner angle looking towards Snow Hill Station
Barwick Street looking down the other way to Edmund Street
Cornwall Street
Eden Place
Margaret Street
Meanwhile, back to John Ball's lovely photos...this time mainly round the back of the Council House...
Barwick Street from the corner angle looking towards Snow Hill Station
Barwick Street looking down the other way to Edmund Street
Cornwall Street
Eden Place
Margaret Street
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jennyann
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
I was a regular customer at The Clover in the late 1950's. On visits to Brum I often went there. Last time was in 1968. My first Chinese
meal in a restaurant in Brum was a restaurant in Station Street opposite the entrance to New Street Station. Can't remember the name now.
We used to have Luncheon Vouchers issued at New Street Station where I worked and my office colleagues would save them up for a week
and have lunch at this restaurant. Great food. I also loved the Kam Ling on Livery Street. Excellent Cantonese cooking back in the early 1960's.
meal in a restaurant in Brum was a restaurant in Station Street opposite the entrance to New Street Station. Can't remember the name now.
We used to have Luncheon Vouchers issued at New Street Station where I worked and my office colleagues would save them up for a week
and have lunch at this restaurant. Great food. I also loved the Kam Ling on Livery Street. Excellent Cantonese cooking back in the early 1960's.
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Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Thanks for the map and info Mike and Phil. Someone may fill in the other one in time..?
The mention of the Clover, Viv and carolina, reminds me of the Light of Asia (I think it was called that) Chinese Restaurant over a chemist's shop on the corner opposite the Law Courts. Became a Yates' Wine Lodge, and now awaiting yet another transformation...The first photo here shows the original corner of the building, which somehow has survived the many changes to Corporation street over the years. It was originally called the Court Restaurant I think. I remember you having to go upstairs to it, and can definitely remember having eaten there in 1959, just before I started work. Must have been one of the first Chinese places in Town, like the Clover, Kam Ling and Lychee Gardens?
The other photos are from John Ball's collection, and from that area in the 60s...including another bostin' old restaurant of my mis-spent youth, the Firebird in Carrs Lane...
Law Courts circa 1900..
Coleridge Passage
Newton Street
Henns Walk
Carrs Lane - The Firebird...
The mention of the Clover, Viv and carolina, reminds me of the Light of Asia (I think it was called that) Chinese Restaurant over a chemist's shop on the corner opposite the Law Courts. Became a Yates' Wine Lodge, and now awaiting yet another transformation...The first photo here shows the original corner of the building, which somehow has survived the many changes to Corporation street over the years. It was originally called the Court Restaurant I think. I remember you having to go upstairs to it, and can definitely remember having eaten there in 1959, just before I started work. Must have been one of the first Chinese places in Town, like the Clover, Kam Ling and Lychee Gardens?
The other photos are from John Ball's collection, and from that area in the 60s...including another bostin' old restaurant of my mis-spent youth, the Firebird in Carrs Lane...
Law Courts circa 1900..
Coleridge Passage
Newton Street
Henns Walk
Carrs Lane - The Firebird...
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sistersue61
master brummie
The Happy Gathering was round for years, still there in the late 70's, went there when I started at Selly oak a whole group of (probably rowdy) student nurses and they were brilliant, just gave us platters of everything to tryand hugely discounted the cost for us, good memories!
Sue
Sue
jennyann
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Sorry I meant Station Street not Market Street on my above post. So it was the same place Judy. I don't think way back when it first opened that it
was called Happy Gathering. I hope someone can clarify this. They had very good Chinese food I remember. I also think at that time late 1950's they had
a small English menu. I remember having scampi with chips one time. They made awful custard. My brother, who was a Trad jazz fan used to go there
with his friends after leaving the jazz venues. They would joke around with the waiters who got the idea that these patrons would run away without paying which they never did. Just in case, one or two of the cooks would lurk around the front door with a cleaver in hand!
was called Happy Gathering. I hope someone can clarify this. They had very good Chinese food I remember. I also think at that time late 1950's they had
a small English menu. I remember having scampi with chips one time. They made awful custard. My brother, who was a Trad jazz fan used to go there
with his friends after leaving the jazz venues. They would joke around with the waiters who got the idea that these patrons would run away without paying which they never did. Just in case, one or two of the cooks would lurk around the front door with a cleaver in hand!
jennyann
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Ok Mike. I think I have it sorted although I don't know the name of the first restaurant opened in the late l950's on Station Street where the Happy Gathering Restaurant is now. Happy Gathering first opened in Pershore Street in 1968 and then moved to Station Street in 1970. It was the first Cantonese restaurant in Brum and served authentic Cantonese food. Didn't mean for this thread to be a Chinese restaurant one.
Dennis, here's the said emporium entitled 'Light of Asia' dated Feb.1962. Educational link from Getty Images
Here's the link in case the picture goes missing
https://cache1.asset-cache.net/gp/3...=zJE7wqxfVISC0RlQxeWy3fYf+VK+z6KzxX7KWRW0heg=
Jayell
master brummie
Mike, I have no idea what the name of the Chinese Restaurant was. Just remember going there for the first time and not knowing what to order. We asked for No.1 on the menu!! When it turned up it just looked like a mess on the plate with a fried egg on the top. As I had just come out of Yates's, it turned my stomach and I had to leave!!!! My first experience of Chinese food - but now I just love it.
Jennyann - I guess it must have been the same restaurant as I remember crossing the footbridge over New Street station and coming out in Station Street almost opposite the restaurant.
Judy
Jennyann - I guess it must have been the same restaurant as I remember crossing the footbridge over New Street station and coming out in Station Street almost opposite the restaurant.
Judy
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Yes, thanks Richie, you made my day with that one! My Mrs still thinks it was named summat else earlier...great stories about old restaurants...they add a little sparkle to the back alleys of our youth...
Anyhow, more from John Ball's collection to ponder...
Moor Street
Moor Street
Snow Hill
Stephenson Place
Stephenson Place
Anyhow, more from John Ball's collection to ponder...
Moor Street
Moor Street
Snow Hill
Stephenson Place
Stephenson Place
Stephenson's Place was once a key place of measurement in Birmingham. Atwood's statue being considered the centre of Birmingham according to Showell's Dictionary. The 'Centre' has obviously moved about the town through time. Viv.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
More from John Ball's lens...1963 or thereabouts...circa Corporation Street area...
Cherry Street
Needless Alley
Temple Passage
Union Street
Warwick Passage
Cherry Street
Needless Alley
Temple Passage
Union Street
Warwick Passage