• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Panorama – the first Rotunda

The road we know as Colmore Row was originally New Hall Lane, but then part of it was changed, and from memory only, I believe the bit from The Town Hall to Newhall Street (not to be confused with New Hall Lane) was Ann Street, the rest was Colmore Row, but it then changed again at some time. Certainly by 1750 it was Colmore Row. Shortie
 
Rupert said:
Personally I think that what you are looking at is more likely to be a view of a building on Waterloo Street with St Phillips dome/spire in the distance and the backs of a Row of buildings in between on Temple Row West...
Click to expand...

Thanks Rupert. I think we will have to agree to disagree about whether the view through the window in the Hepinstall and Parker’s File Manufactory engraving shows the Panorama on New St (above the parchment and on the right) or whether it is some other unidentified building on Waterloo St or elsewhere. We certainly agree that the dome/Spire appears to represent St Philips along with the back of the surrounding houses on Temple Row West. Everyone will have their own view but at least it has generated genuinely interesting debate.
 
As you say, Aidan, a very interesting debate. What has occurred to me, and I am happy to be proved wrong, is it not possible that the view was just representative of what Birmingham had to offer, rather than what could actually be seen from the window? Shortie
 
Hi Shortie - that is of course another possibility. For me though, I think it surprising that the engraver bothered to represent the view at all. As he (and I think likely a he) did so, then I think he would pick out only the obvious or big elements (it was an engraving not a sketch or painting after all). The site of the manufactory was established on the other thread to be towards the end of Ann Street, which at the time curved around from Colmore Row to New Street and was fairly high up on the landscape due to being near the top of the ridge. That the view is an upper room or Garret is I think a given due to the hoist being shown in the engraving.

From that elevated position, facing between Colmore Row & New Street what would be the "big elements" that would likely to have been captured c1804? Taking the later Lines painting (1821) as a reference along with the earlier map work on this thread, it can only be St Philips, houses on Temple Row West and the roof of the newly established Panorama (roof because New Street slopes down the hill from Ann Street). The Panorama roof is also represented in the Foreground of the engraving as it would certainly be nearer to the supposed location of the Manufactory than St Philips/Temple Row West behind and above it on the ridge. In that period Christchurch would be in the process of being built and so not visible from the engravers viewpoint

Basically, I am quite excited by the find :)
 
Hi Aiden, I see what you mean and I suspect you might be right. I have had a look at the 1731 map and as you say, this is before Easy Row, and it does indeed curl around. It's still called New Hall Lane at that point. It's funny, I have had this map book for a few months and I had not noticed that at all. If the building was on that bend, I think you are probably quite right. Shortie
 
Rupert said:
....If you read Pye's Travels...accounts of tourism in the early 1800s he mentions about the wonderfull white Theater Royal viewed from a distance...presumably from Phillips Square but I wonder how he could have seen this view without climbing up to the top of St Phillips....there are buildings in the way. I wonder if he was looking at the Lines painting to get the information to write this report.
Click to expand...

Phil pmc1947 on another thread shared the following link of old Maps https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_Pages/ENG_pages/war.htm The one I found interesting is the "Birmingham. 1819 In: A Description of modern Birmingham ... by Charles Pye, pub. J. M. Richardson : J. Lowe, [1820]". It doesn't zoom well so if anyone knows of a better copy please share or has better zooming than I. But unless I am seeing Panoramas again there is a round blob with what looks like the word Panorama written underneath it in the correct position.

If true this would be wonderful as we would then have a representation of its start in 1804, a map actually identifying it as such towards the end of its life (I hope), the wonderful Lines painting in 1821 and then a host of maps and pictures when it gets converted to RSA.

To answer your other point Rupert, if the traveller was at the top of Ann St before Colmore Row and Temple Row West, perhaps he even came up New Hall Street, I'm not sure there would be much of an obstruction to the Royal Theatre in early 1800s
 
I have tried to zoom into the map but seem to get even worse pixelation - help! - can anyone get a cleaner image than this please, please, please? :stressed:

I think it reads from the top left down - Ann Street, Christ Church, Panorama, Post Office. Theatre to the left, St Philips Church bottom-right. Hope it is not me eyes :rolleyes:
 
Don't know if these help at all? I thought that I had uploaded both halves of the 1795 one before, but I can't find them
 
Leslam - many thanks for your additional maps, they are most interesting. Has anyone been watching the BBC2 series on "The Beauty of Maps"? Fantastic!

The third attachment from 1838 is another lovely example of the Panorama having been incorporated into the Society of Arts building in the late 1820s of which there is much on this thread. See also the 1839 map that Mike posted-#6 inter alia. It has much additional interest showing the detail of that den of iniquity called The Froggery that New Street would transform. Both maps are packed with interest.

However the 1819/20 map that I am trying to read might contain the first documentary proof of the Birmingham Panorama and it is frustrating that a combination of a poor quality scan at https://freepages.genealogy.rootswe...s/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/WAR/nk_brum_1819.jpg and my poor tools (and probably poor workmanship) means it is not clear. I am hoping that either someone has either the right tools & skills to clean up the zoom of the map or if they know of a better quality scan that they can share will be able to show it.

Help!!!!
 
Some Literary sources

"The history of Birmingham" By William Hutton in 1819 gives a short reference worth repeating "The Panorama is an entertainment that, I believe, no man who has ever saw repented a lost shilling" https://www.archive.org/stream/historyofbirming00huttiala#page/210/mode/2up/search/panorama - at least confirms the entrance cost

There is an interesting Poem which captures something of the Panorama experience by John Greenleaf Whittier in 1856 at https://www.archive.org/stream/panoramaandother00whitrich#page/n16/mode/1up I think it is American due to the later verses on Slavery and conflict of North & South but I think it is worth a browse.

Similarly, this guide to the 1800 Scottish Panorama's commission of "The Battle of Bannockburn" for Glasgow's Panorama on Sauchiehall Street which includes a wonderful engraving of the Panorama as it's frontispiece https://www.archive.org/stream/guidetogreatscot00clau#page/n0/mode/1up (wish we could find similar for Brum's...)
 
Aidan said:
...The magnification {of Lines Painting} also shows a number of skylights in the roof also as well as at the top which is an unexpected suprise. The light was carefully managed through a central skylight that was hidden from those in the room but just lit up the walls. Can't yet get my head around how that would be managed with perhaps 5 additional "side" skylights, if that is indeed what they are.
Click to expand...

The engraving of the earlier Glasgow Panorama in the Post above shows not only a central skylight but what seem like a continual window halfway down the conical roof. Seems to be an expected feature of the Birmingham one then - Lines correct in representation (again)
 
To date I've just been an anonymous viewer of this thread, but I'm moved to make a complimentary post. Congratulations to Aidan & Co for a fascinating topic, full of interesting research and pictures. :)
 
Thylacine - thanks for compliments which I accept on behalf of all the contributors and readers of this thread and the various other threads that have been referenced. The number of posts is indicative of the interest and by all working together we have established a document reference, various map references and even a couple of pictures fantastic. Still a lot more to do though..

I thought it may be worthwhile reading the full article that Mikejee kindly shared in post-#7 at https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ch of Birmingham&pg=PA188#v=onepage&q&f=false Page-#191 Apart from being the main document reference noting the Panorama specifically The circular building situate at the upper end of New street originally built for and used as a Panorama and hitherto occupied by the Society for their exhibition rooms it also states There is a yard or passage entered from the street at the extremity of which is an entrance for large packages into the exhibition room and I think, as Rupert spotted & suggested, this probably explains the protrusion at the back of the building in Lines Painting (likely to have been added when RSA took on the building in c1820 for an exhibition room and hence shown in 1821).

Rupert also asked about the entrance in post-#20. Looking at the contemporary Glasgow Panorama (now attached), I think it likely that it was similar ie an archway in the side of the circular building. Rereading the ebook article above it seems clear that the frontage ...of stone in the Grecian style of architecture with blank windows and presents a chaste and beautiful elevation in which the principal feature is a noble portico extending over the footpath and supported by four fluted columns which with the pilasters on the face of the building have highly enriched capitals was built at the time of the remodelling in 1828 and of which there are several pics on the thread.

As Mike pointed out the original circular Panorama infrastructure seem to have remained throughout, although added to and remodelleled.
 
Here's an alternative link (at archive.org) to the same book you just linked to at Google Books. It's always good to have a an alternative, as Google has a nasty habit of removing or reducing access to some of their books. I prefer the archive.org interface anyway: it's less cluttered. ;)
 
Thanks Thylacine. It does have a nicer interface too. The Society of Arts (est 1821) section starts at p188 https://www.archive.org/stream/historicaldescri00birmuoft#page/188/mode/2up I have just noticed that the Hon Secretary was John Wilkes Unett - I imagine some relation to the Thomas Unett who lived on The Square, after whom Unett Street was named (I think) and who has the large Obelisk in St Philip's graveyard

Update - Died 1856, Chapman's 1800 shows him as living at 6 The Square (on the East angle I think):
Name: John Wilkes Unett
Location: Birmingham
Occupation: attorney legal professions(a)
Gender: Male
Address(Es): 6, Square, Birmingham
Occupation(s): attorney, legal professions(a)
Source Date: 1800
Source Info:
Listed in Chapman's Birmingham Directory [for 1800], 1800, CHAPMAN. Birmingham
Printed by T. Chapman, No.76, in Bull-street

update 2 - I'm afraid I will have to "off-Topic" myself, but have posted this on The Square Thread :offtopic:
 
I wouldn't argue about the Archive.org being less cluttered, but (at present) you can download the whole book from googgle and not bother if it becomes unavailable
mike
 
Some more readings and pictures on Panoramas that I thought may be of interest (sadly nothing more on Birmingham's)
- Panorama: From 18th Century Spectacle to 21st Century Immersive Media Wonder (good summary)
- Between the Virtual and the Actual: Robert Barker's Panorama of London and the Multiplication of the Real in late eighteenth-century London (technical & heavy-going)

Pictures:
- Section of Burford's Rotunda, Leicester Square, 1801. (acquatint from Robert Mitchell's Plans and Views in Perspective of Buildings Erected in England and Scotland, 1901). Mitchell was the panorama's architect. Notice that several panoramas could be exhibited in viewing apartments stacked one on top of the other.
- Contemporary painting of the construction of a Panorama Rotunda. c.1830.
- Interior view of the observation tower of London Colosseum. It shows workmen preparing the panorama of London, 1829. Guildhall Library Collage Database
- “The Traveling Panoramist," Punch,July 14, 1849
 
Aidan said:
Phil pmc1947 on another thread shared the following link of old Maps https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_Pages/ENG_pages/war.htm The one I found interesting is the "Birmingham. 1819 In: A Description of modern Birmingham ... by Charles Pye, pub. J. M. Richardson : J. Lowe, [1820]". It doesn't zoom well so if anyone knows of a better copy please share or has better zooming than I. But unless I am seeing Panoramas again there is a round blob with what looks like the word Panorama written underneath it in the correct position.

If true this would be wonderful as we would then have a representation of its start in 1804, a map actually identifying it as such towards the end of its life (I hope), the wonderful Lines painting in 1821 and then a host of maps and pictures when it gets converted to RSA.

To answer your other point Rupert, if the traveller was at the top of Ann St before Colmore Row and Temple Row West, perhaps he even came up New Hall Street, I'm not sure there would be much of an obstruction to the Royal Theatre in early 1800s
Click to expand...

I cant find a nice ebook of it but Charles Pye's "A Description of Modern Birmingham: Whereunto Are Annexed Observations Made during an Excursion Round the Town, in the Summer of 1818, Including Warwick and Leamington" https://ia331337.us.archive.org/2/items/adescriptionofmo11416gut/11416-h/11416-h.htm shows a couple of things of interest:

The Theatre.
This superb pile of building was erected in 1774, and an additional portico in 1780, the whole together forming one of the most elegant theatres in Europe. There are in the front of it, over the attic windows, two busts, in bas relief, of exquisite workmanship; one representing Shakespear, and the other Garrick....
This substantial and well-constructed pile of building, being on a line with the street, it cannot be seen to any advantage, except you ascend the roof of St. Philip's church. This theatre is now lighted by means of gas, in a most brilliant manner.

Panorama.
A pile of building was erected in New-street, for the purpose of exhibiting paintings of this description, which has lately been converted into an auction room.

I think he uses the term "pile" to mean of substantial construction" ie a heap of bricks laid or lying one on top of another.

The auctioneer brothers Josiah & Cornelius Robins already had premises on New St and I think must have taken it over sometime mid-1818 before passing it on to Royal Birmingham Society of Artists in 1822 who then remodelled it in 1828
 
Managed to track down The history of Birmingham By William Hutton in 1830 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eF8JAAAAIAAJ&vq=panorama&pg=PA384-IA2#v=onepage&q&f=false with a nice engraving of the Royal Birmingham Society of Artists

Also Drake's 1825 The Picture of Birmingham https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nxMNAAAAYAAJ&vq=panorama&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false :

Crossing the way again we come to a circular building with a projecting portico originally intended for the reception of Panoramas but not liberally supported the proprietor endeavoured to save expense by introducing paintings of very inferior merit This naturally made bad worse and the place was converted into an Auction Room A few years ago it was purchased by a society and appropriated to the purpose of an Academy of Arts The large circular apartment contains a fine selection of casts from the finest sculptures of antiquity of which the principal portion was presented by Sir Itobert Lawley of Canwell Hall near Tamworth To the benefits of this institution the youth of the town are admitted as pupils at regularly appointed hours on a plan combining liberality with utility Such an institution is admirably calculated to promote the advance of true taste and good feeling in the fine arts in a town whose manufactures depend so greatly for their prosperity on their superiority in design and decoration The coup d ceil of the interior is good and interesting strangers are ad mitted without difficulty on the introduction of a subscriber
 
:1024:Finally managed to get a copy of the Birmingham Historian from Dec 1999 with an excellent write-up of the Panorama by Margaret D. Green.:1024:

Much of the information, and more, we have already covered independently on this thread (which is good corroboration). There is much new information too including many references to the Panorama in Aris's Birmingham Gazette including its start in March 1804 with "A view of Ramsgate" (first shown in London in 1800 then after Birmingham to Liverpool in 1805). I would like to check out these references - does anyone know if it is possible to view Aris's Birmingham Gazette online please?

The article, like this thread, was unable to find the original owners but surmised it must have been Robert Barker or his son as the initial adverts call it "Mr Barker's Panorama" but these stop by mid 1807. By mid 1810 the proprietor is named as John H. Parker and he had shown the first non-Barker painting called "Boulogne" in 1809. The Panorama closed after exhibiting "Barker's Waterloo" in 1817 then Parker lived in a front house in upper New St, died 1821, buried St Mary's Whittall St.

The Pièce de résistance though is a b&w copy of an anonymous watercolour, reproduced below showing the classical portico'd entrance that we had already surmised and further conjectured was later remodelled or reproduced to form the front of the RBSA. Note also the pommel on top that was surely viewed though the window of Hepinstall and Parker’s File Manufactory, Ann Street. The author also notes the side extrusion that we discussed on the Lines picture: "Not visible [on the watercolour], but clear on an [Inge] estate map of 1809 was an exterior feature to the left, possibly housing a darkened corridor or staircase up to the circular viewing room".
 
As far as I know it's not available on-line. But it is held on microfilm in Central Library. The earliest I can go is next Thursday (29th). If you get together a list of refs, I'll do them 29th or 30th if you like?
 
Just looked at the first picture again. You can see Ann Street behind the church - the castellations on the building on the corner tie it in nicely :)
 
Thanks Les for your kind offer, I will note some down. The picture is very important and has loads of detail to analyse - knew you would like it too! Just wish I knew where it is kept - the oly info as to source is someone called David Temperley but no address.
 
Could it be:
Antiquarian Booksellers

David Temperley
Westminster Books, 19 Rotton Park Road
Tel: 0121 454 0135
Appointment desirable


 
Thanks Mike - it was! But he sold it about 10years ago. Think it went through Christie's for about £1000.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top