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OLD ROSE TAVERN
- Thread starter postie
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Re: Bhf easter meet up
hi jim thanks for that info on the rose villa but its now posing a mystery to me as i am not sure that info is right...the manager asked me if i could find out extactly when it was built as they were unsure so i looked the pub up in kellys last week and according to that the rose villa tavern was there in 1895 but not there in 1892 i dont have kellys for 1893 and 1894 so i assumed the pub was built between 1893 and 1894..the info you have posted suggests it was built much later around 1919/20..if anyone can help sort this one out i would be most grateful
lyn
hi jim thanks for that info on the rose villa but its now posing a mystery to me as i am not sure that info is right...the manager asked me if i could find out extactly when it was built as they were unsure so i looked the pub up in kellys last week and according to that the rose villa tavern was there in 1895 but not there in 1892 i dont have kellys for 1893 and 1894 so i assumed the pub was built between 1893 and 1894..the info you have posted suggests it was built much later around 1919/20..if anyone can help sort this one out i would be most grateful
lyn
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Re: Bhf easter meet up
thanks phil i did wonder if there had been an earlier one....when ive got time i will have try and find out what the earliest date the first one was in kellys
lyn
thanks phil i did wonder if there had been an earlier one....when ive got time i will have try and find out what the earliest date the first one was in kellys
lyn
"The Birmingham Jewellery quarter", published by English Heritage states that the Rose Villa Tavern building is 1919-20. However , as Lyn has already said, kellys states that there was an earlier pub. however it looks as if it was a smaller pub. Now The rose villa is no 173 Warstone Lane. The first mention of it I can find is in 1867 , when the Landlord was Edward Moore. It is listed in the 1867 Directory and Moore is listed in the Birmingham Post on 1st August 1967 as having been fined 2/6 (2 shillings and sixpence to our younger readers) for keeping improper hours. Here the number is 170, and 173 is occupied by someone else. No 170 is not listed in the 1862 directory , amd in then 1858, it is occupied by a jeweller Jabez Taylor. So I would guress that the first Roise villa Tavern was built/converted between 1862 and 1867. It then seems to be a proper pub , as itnis listed by name, named not just a beerhouse. Edward Moore was still landlord in 1880-1884 and is so listed till 1888, but is described as a beer retailer, which usually meant the place had only a beerhouse licence, and in 1888, when there was a licence transfer to C.F.Woodbridge, it is described as a beerhouse. In 1892 Kellys do not list it. In 1883 the licence is transferred to A.C.Taylor as a Beer (On) licence, which seems to mean it is still a beerhouse, but in 1895 it is listed by name in Kellys, which implies it is now a full public house. However it is now listed as no 172 rather than 170, which means it must have absorbed no 172. No 173 is still a confectioner.
All this implies to me that the Rose villa Tavern started as a full pub, between 1862 & 1867. Between 1884 and 1888 it transferred to a beerhouse licence. Between 1893 and 1895 it absorbed the next door business (possibly rebuilding) and by 1895 it has gained a full licence. In 1919-21 it is rebuilt absorbing no 173 Warstone Lane in the process.
All this implies to me that the Rose villa Tavern started as a full pub, between 1862 & 1867. Between 1884 and 1888 it transferred to a beerhouse licence. Between 1893 and 1895 it absorbed the next door business (possibly rebuilding) and by 1895 it has gained a full licence. In 1919-21 it is rebuilt absorbing no 173 Warstone Lane in the process.
David Harvey in his book "Hockley", shows a picture of the new Tavern and says it was built for a Mr Rose, who came back from Australia after making his fortune and was a supporter of Aston villa - thus the name of the pub, but this cannot be correct as, as far as I understand it, Aston villa club was only formed in 1874, so unless Mr Rose was a fortune teller, he cannot have named the pub after the club
hi mike
all the years i have known that pub and used it many years ago quite regular i never knew it was a mr rose and where the name ame from
In the late seventys it took a decline in he evening trade until one of our licence trader friend took it over and rebuilt it
It had a lot of character it would have been in the late 1800s that it was built and hrough the years ahead it was alway the in pub aong with the lord nelson
within that hockley area that i can tell you my mother had told me the stories as they had a business almost acros the rd in the 1920 ,s
and as i became a man in younger years and my cronies and me used it quite often the c division of keyon street was always flanked in there nightly even at lunch times it was known as a coppers pub ; and it was known for the old time gangster pub ;
duringthe fortys and fiftys right through unil the sixtys and beleive me these are the old god fathers of brum gangs that freqentyed the pub and planned there
robbery,s there ;, that i can confirm ; and many a jewelers deals have taken there over the years gone bye beleive me
yes it was a very popular pub along with the lord nelson down the rd in the hey day of the twentys and thirys and fortys and fiftys
it ws sad to see i go down but as i said a certain family regeneratedd whom i will not name and they are still regeneraing the old pubs today
best wishes astonian;; alan;
all the years i have known that pub and used it many years ago quite regular i never knew it was a mr rose and where the name ame from
In the late seventys it took a decline in he evening trade until one of our licence trader friend took it over and rebuilt it
It had a lot of character it would have been in the late 1800s that it was built and hrough the years ahead it was alway the in pub aong with the lord nelson
within that hockley area that i can tell you my mother had told me the stories as they had a business almost acros the rd in the 1920 ,s
and as i became a man in younger years and my cronies and me used it quite often the c division of keyon street was always flanked in there nightly even at lunch times it was known as a coppers pub ; and it was known for the old time gangster pub ;
duringthe fortys and fiftys right through unil the sixtys and beleive me these are the old god fathers of brum gangs that freqentyed the pub and planned there
robbery,s there ;, that i can confirm ; and many a jewelers deals have taken there over the years gone bye beleive me
yes it was a very popular pub along with the lord nelson down the rd in the hey day of the twentys and thirys and fortys and fiftys
it ws sad to see i go down but as i said a certain family regeneratedd whom i will not name and they are still regeneraing the old pubs today
best wishes astonian;; alan;
HI MIKE
As far as we are concerned it was always the original rose taven and beautifully tiled and dezigned through out the property in/outside and tiled
nicely finished as you say given the dates it cannot have ever been named after the villa but it may have been a villa connection with people from the
villa club its self and management or players for instance because of its one time flushness through out
as i said it was a top pub in its hay day probaly known for its meals with waitress services along with the lord clifton was also flushyears ago in the 1900s
and known for the asociates and partys some body as misinterperted the expression of what he was saying and put to print
personally mike in the early years i think it was the rose villa and when he came back from aussie land and may be he was a villa fan and the wording of taven was added to rose taven for the finishing touch in the fifties after all most of the pubs around the areas of brum got a name change
like the manor of wainwright street did at the top of wainwright street along with the widdows arms on lichfield rd did just around the corner from that one
a slight change of decor as well and painted out side ;they did on aew pubs this is around the 1953 period i think it was best wishes astonian;; alan;;
As far as we are concerned it was always the original rose taven and beautifully tiled and dezigned through out the property in/outside and tiled
nicely finished as you say given the dates it cannot have ever been named after the villa but it may have been a villa connection with people from the
villa club its self and management or players for instance because of its one time flushness through out
as i said it was a top pub in its hay day probaly known for its meals with waitress services along with the lord clifton was also flushyears ago in the 1900s
and known for the asociates and partys some body as misinterperted the expression of what he was saying and put to print
personally mike in the early years i think it was the rose villa and when he came back from aussie land and may be he was a villa fan and the wording of taven was added to rose taven for the finishing touch in the fifties after all most of the pubs around the areas of brum got a name change
like the manor of wainwright street did at the top of wainwright street along with the widdows arms on lichfield rd did just around the corner from that one
a slight change of decor as well and painted out side ;they did on aew pubs this is around the 1953 period i think it was best wishes astonian;; alan;;
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