Stokkie
master brummie
Thanks for replying PJay. Can this be seen on-line on the National Archive site?
Turning to the page you posted can you give us any place names we might look for? Brimsfield I guess, but are there any others?
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Old English/Latin/Dog Latin
- Thread starter PJay
- Start date
Turning to the page you posted can you give us any place names we might look for? Brimsfield I guess, but are there any others?
Hi Stokkie, No I had to 'buy' the copy. Its Brimfield Herefordshire. Croft is of Croft Castle (Herefordshire) Hardwyke is of Brimfield
Stokkie
master brummie
Thanks, as you can see some phrases are much more readable than others. At the moment I can't see any other place or field names I'm afraid. But then I don't know what to look for.
Stokkie
I was looking for a dwelling name or a field name - its pretty normal for no names, but I was just hoping to locate in Brimfield were the dispute was spoken about
I've got the Tithe map from 1841 - a lot has changed that's for sure - very interesting though
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Back again,
I agree with Stokkie and for clarity I have numbered all lines.
Second line of the heading has a word at the beginning Em.ght which I thought at first was Eight but that doesn't make sense to me.
1. Complainings .......... ....... yr good lordship ye/yr poor orator Thomas Croft Gent, that
2. (last three words) of one year
3. (last three words) lying and being in
4. Brimfield
19, ... ... ... ... ... ... if it may please your good lordship to grant a .... .... .... to be
20. .... .... John Hardwycke .... .... .... .... by the same ..... afore the....
That's as far as I've got. Please join in with any suggestions.
I agree with Stokkie and for clarity I have numbered all lines.
Second line of the heading has a word at the beginning Em.ght which I thought at first was Eight but that doesn't make sense to me.
1. Complainings .......... ....... yr good lordship ye/yr poor orator Thomas Croft Gent, that
2. (last three words) of one year
3. (last three words) lying and being in
4. Brimfield
19, ... ... ... ... ... ... if it may please your good lordship to grant a .... .... .... to be
20. .... .... John Hardwycke .... .... .... .... by the same ..... afore the....
That's as far as I've got. Please join in with any suggestions.
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Forgot to say that the orator is the plaintiff, referred to by himself in the Bill of Complaint.
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Hi PJay,
I think I’ve gone as far as I can with your document. I’ve done a bit of digging and I think you’re up against several problems with this document. If you want to progress it further you will need to consult someone more expert, a palaeographer (handwriting expert) or at least someone more familiar with this writing.
This document was produced during the reign of Mary 1 and the alphabet at that time was completely different to that we know today. Some words we can make out and some we can guess at but it is written in what was known as Court Hand and because of this probably contains a form of shorthand in places. Also, some words can be split and some joined (don’t make it easy do they?)
It was written by a clerk to be put before the court and not as the system we know today when a transcript is made of the actual hearing.
Lastly the writing deteriorates after the first line of the body of the text and gets worse as it progresses. This is probably because it was being dictated and the clerk was rushed to get everything noted.
However, bearing all this in mind, I think that the gist of the complaint is that Thomas Croft has brought a case against John Hardwyke to Chancery. This is regarding an unbuilt messuage and land in Brimstead previously in the possession of Richard Palmer Esquire.
It seems to me that there was an agreement between the two for Thomas to rent the land possibly paying for a year already and John Hardwyke has reneged on this agreement.
The website below shows what some of the letters might be but but bear in mind that everyone’s handwriting is different as it is today and it was 'Court Hand'. By the beginning of the 17th Century it was much easier to read.
Good Luck with your research PJay,
From the other PJay!
I think I’ve gone as far as I can with your document. I’ve done a bit of digging and I think you’re up against several problems with this document. If you want to progress it further you will need to consult someone more expert, a palaeographer (handwriting expert) or at least someone more familiar with this writing.
This document was produced during the reign of Mary 1 and the alphabet at that time was completely different to that we know today. Some words we can make out and some we can guess at but it is written in what was known as Court Hand and because of this probably contains a form of shorthand in places. Also, some words can be split and some joined (don’t make it easy do they?)
It was written by a clerk to be put before the court and not as the system we know today when a transcript is made of the actual hearing.
Lastly the writing deteriorates after the first line of the body of the text and gets worse as it progresses. This is probably because it was being dictated and the clerk was rushed to get everything noted.
However, bearing all this in mind, I think that the gist of the complaint is that Thomas Croft has brought a case against John Hardwyke to Chancery. This is regarding an unbuilt messuage and land in Brimstead previously in the possession of Richard Palmer Esquire.
It seems to me that there was an agreement between the two for Thomas to rent the land possibly paying for a year already and John Hardwyke has reneged on this agreement.
The website below shows what some of the letters might be but but bear in mind that everyone’s handwriting is different as it is today and it was 'Court Hand'. By the beginning of the 17th Century it was much easier to read.
Good Luck with your research PJay,
From the other PJay!
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Sorry, I think it should be Brimfield not Brimstead.