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National Service

  • Thread starter Thread starter RayD
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Austin K2, the name does not ring a bell, he was not in our crew but it was over 60 years ago and I am now in my 80's, the Sqdn was in Africa from 1946 to 1953 but I was only with them from '49 to '51 perhaps he was there at a different time ?? I can remember our C.O. was Wing Commander Torrens, Our skipper was Ft.Lt Len Murray (from Oz) Navigator Burton from London, Flight Eng Wipani (French Canadian) and me known as Brummie, they were all older than so probably not around anymore like your mate I have an Album of over 100 pics and I have no record of a Ron Madison, what member of the crew was he. Eric
 
I was working for one of, if not the biggest, engineering company in the U.K at the time. 26 companies which were varied, I worked for the B.S.A. Tools group on service and demonstration, I went worldwide.
Right another little story. Part of the area of my armoury was sectioned off to make a billet for a corporal who worked in the stores above my workshop, he was a scotchman Cpl Proctor, who liked his whisky and only drew his wages once a month. The next day being a Friday he would go down to Devizes and get stoned on his favourite drink, how he got back to camp I do not know but the next morning we would have to bring him a mug of tea to try and get him mobile as he was still drunk and there was sick all over the floor and bed, As he was in charge of issuing the linen it was easy to change them but we had to do this for him, the place stunk of whisky and sick and I felt at times just to leave him to his own devices. He was lucky because being as the Keep was locked at night till we left the building the orderly Sgt or Officer could not see the state he was in, it was a good job the C.Q.M. Mjr Goswell hardley went up to the stores so his mates got him through Saturday until Noon.
The night we had the dance in the Gym and the fight broke out that was a Friday night and Jock in his drunken state in his billet got up and went into the Guardroom picked up a Sten, clipped a Mag in and went outside to confront the Teddy boys from the town. Luckly Staff Gorman told him to put the Sten back in the guardroom or he would be on a charge on Monday and would spend the nights in the cell, somehow this got through to Jock and he took the weopon back, thank God. He was a nasty person at the best of times, a 22 yearman with no relatives and nowhere to go at the weekends. He would be long gone now.

Dave
 
Cookie, I cannot give you any more information, I didn't know him long, just after I moved to Lincolnshire in 1975.
It was only after his death that I found out from his wife about his past.

As an aside to this, one of the Lancaster's that was in your squadron is now in East Kirkby Aviation Centre in Lincolnshire, where the Panton family hope one day to get it flying again.
The Lancaster is called "JUST JANE" named after the Daily Mirror cartoon character.
Some years ago I helped to get the engines running again after a good number of years standing idle. They now do regular taxying runs.
Well worth a visit if ever any of you are over this way.
 
#1061, Dave the Regiments in our time were really like family's, and the less able of our comrades were looked after and sheltered to a certain degree, I may have told this story before, we had a lad, (well an old man by army standards), and as a young soldier was a forces boxing champion, but was now a (Punchy), and worked full time only in the Guard room, he never did BFT, never got inspected, had no one or any place to go and so to get his full pension was kept on by the Regiment. I find this now really great, it certainly would not happen today.
 
Loved my national service in the Royal Air Force once I got to my permanent camp which is now an open prison R A F Wartling Sussex was captain of boxing team and captain of the football team never had much time for my work as a radar op because I needed all the time for training an organising teams happy days 1953/4


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Gone a bit dead of late.
A story about the Rooks keeping us awake for three nights in the main staff block. The building was a three story with ceilings at about 13 ft built about the 1700 hundreds with chimney stacks running from ground to very high above the roofs and down the sides were vent shafts feeding every floor.Above roof level the air intake vents were big, enough for the Rooks to nest and there many of them, the bloody noise at times was deafening. Having heard the sound of them for three nights keeping us awake , we came to the conclusion that one or two had fallen down the vent shaft and were somewhere behind the slats in the side of the chimney so it was time to have a good look. Nashy the carpenter was in the billet so I asked if I can get the slats out could he put them back in the morning, that seen to I put a chair on the side cabinet the lads held it while I prized the slats out with the broom handle, and started to pull out loads of twiggs. Then all of a sudden out flew a very big frightened Rook and made for the nearest tin helmet on top of the wardrobe, we tried to catch it but it kept flying from one helmet to another, this was just before lights out and the orderly Sgt put his head round the door and said "Lights out lads" I said we are not putting them out until we have caught this bird Sarg. "O.K" and away he went. To catch it one of the lads said wait until it settles then put the lights out, that worked so the chippy took down his workshop gave it water and food and it had both. Next morning it was let go to fall down another vent shaft somewhere.

Dave
 
I remember most of our NS men were resigned to having to "do their time" and knuckled down to it with a smile.

Their pay was pathetic, a Jock in our room used to come off Pay Parade and put seven little piles of money along the top shelf of his locker. "That's seven NAAFI breaks, seven beers and seven whiskeys" he'd say.

We had a little Taff in our troop who was the Battery Captain's driver, he was so nervous of having them nicked and having to pay for them that at midday and last parade he'd bring the doors and tools off his Champ and put them under his bed.
 
There were still one or two Champs still in use in Aden in 64/65, but they were't liked, because of their narrow wheel base, and high body they were unstable on the rough roads, also REME thought their high bred (Rolls) engines, temperamental in the sandy/hot terrain.
 
Paul,
When I went to workshops to do my A.I trade test in Warminster they were having trouble with the complex axles of the Champs then and that was in 1955. I agree about the height and width of the body but by god could that unit move, just as fast in reverse as forward due to the single lever ambush gear. I was a lovely thing to drive as we had one on camp and I would be taken to certain ranges in it and Bob Lowery used to let me drive it sometimes. Rolls sealed engine in it, I stand correcting, built by the Austin in those days I think.

Dave
 
Talking about N/S pilots we had one at our company in 1952, he made headline news one Monday morning when he shot up the factory at (B.S.A.Tools) Kitts Green. Break time 10,05, he had taken off from Castle Bromwich aerodrome and just dive bombed the factory for fifteen minutes, everybody was outside watching the display, the works Manager was phoning around to try and find out where the aircraft was from. In front of the factory in those days was a field on the corner of the Meadway and he was diving to that area then having to pull up to miss the factory roof, most of his concentration was on the laboratory at the back near the railway and the school where the kids were being scared by his antics. We had an 80 ft stack at the boiler house and he had to roll to miss that as he was so low, in that area was the Lab where he used to work before he joined up, he said to his mates he would do this where he passed out as a pilot. he was discharged from the forces about two weeks later. He never came back to the company after leaving, maybe he tried or he was told before that he would not be welcome having stopped production for longer than the break, (!0 minutes) He made the Birmingham evening mail and people who were in the area gave their account of the mornings episode, his name was Geoff Sergent. I have tried to find the account on the net but witout success, he became famous that morning. Anybody from that area of Kitts Green remember that morning?

Dave
 
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paul stacey said:
There were still one or two Champs still in use in Aden in 64/65, but they were't liked, because of their narrow wheel base, and high body they were unstable on the rough roads, also REME thought their high bred (Rolls) engines, temperamental in the sandy/hot terrain.
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I drove Austin Champs & Bedford Rl when stationed in Bielefeldt. I know the Bedford didn`t have a heater but i cant remember if the Champ had one. They were b....y drafty especially in a very cold German winter. (the 4 wheel drive was handy tho ) A lad in my billet, drunk out of his mind, stole a champ, left the road at high speed & managed to hit the only tree in the field. Killed instantly. This was shortly before xmas & we used his empty locker to store our xmas booze & were horified when the lads parents walked into the billet. Thank goodness they didn`t ask to see inside his locker.
 
Do you know Smudger, they had Bedford RL's I believe up to about 1970, I remember the Bedford TK's started to appear about 1964, I thought they drove like a car, Dave, I believe that the Champ was produced at the Austin, under licence from Rolls Royce, but of course these vehicles absolutely epitomise the time in late 50's early 60's of service to the crown, whether NS, or Regular. First time I drove a TK, I picked it up from the MTO, and picked up a "Gold Bloke" (Colour Sargeant, Scots Guards Depot Staff), to run over to Aldershot as we approached the main gate, a staff Ford Consul with loads of flags on it (Guards Staff Brigade), so I braked sharply and the whole bl--dy, cab shot forward pitching the Gold Bloke in to the corner of the windscreen. He was not well pleased I can tell you,of course I had'nt a clue what had happened but the Picket Sgt knew and after we got out, they tilted it back and put the locks on it which the REME had of course forgot to do when they did the pre release check.
 
Eddie 14 said:
Talking about N/S pilots
Dave
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I was always issued with a parachute for the few flights I had during National Service and thinking back I wondered how many aircraft were damaged or crashed during one year I worked in the RAF. The internet says the RAF managed to crash or damage 17 aircraft in 1957, often 2 or 3 a month as can be seen in the list below.
I witnessed one of them but didn't cause any of them !....:smug:
Just imagine what today's 24 hour News Channels would have made of this lot - 'breaking news' every month - and 'serious questions' about Vickers Valettas !
27-FEB-1957.....Vickers Valetta...................VL279
05-MAR-1957....Blackburn Beverley C.1.........XH117
27-MAR-1957....Miles Marathon T.1..............XA255
17-APR-1957.....Vickers Valetta C.1..............VW832
07-MAY-1957....Vickers Valetta C.1..............VW184
12-JUN-1957.....Vickers Valetta C.1..............VW165
22-AUG-1957.....Vickers Valetta C.1..............VX491
27-AUG-1957.....Douglas Dakota C.4..............KN649
05-SEP-1957.....Avro Shackleton MR.1A.........WB861
14-SEP-1957.....Avro Shackleton MR.2...........WL792
20-SEP-1957.....Vickers Varsity T.1...............WL640
21-OCT-1957.....Handley Page Hastings C.1....TG615
30-OCT-1957.....Miles Marathon T.2..............XA256
02-NOV-1957.....Vickers Valetta T.3..............WJ470
16-NOV-1957.....Miles Marathon T.2..............XA251
30-NOV-1957.....Miles Marathon T.2..............XA273
10-DEC-1957.....Miles Marathon T.2...............XA250
 
It`s surprising how we suddenly remember things many years back. On manouvres one time, i was detailed to drive three officers to a nearby town for liquid refreshment. I dropped them off, & was told to pick them up at the same place at midnight. I waited till 3am & they never showed, so i drove back to camp, woke the duty officer & explained what had happened. I don`t know if he was just peed off with being woken, but he went thru me like a dose of salts & ordered me to go back. So back i went & after a couple of miles came across 3 very inebreated officers. I was expecting a rollocking from them but they were all as happy as larry & i received an apology from one of them later that day. Junior officers were always the worst & some treated you like you were some scruffy little oik.
 
paul stacey said:
Do you know Smudger, they had Bedford RL's I believe up to about 1970, I remember the Bedford TK's started to appear about 1964, I thought they drove like a car, Dave, I believe that the Champ was produced at the Austin, under licence from Rolls Royce, but of course these vehicles absolutely epitomise the time in late 50's early 60's of service to the crown, whether NS, or Regular. First time I drove a TK, I picked it up from the MTO, and picked up a "Gold Bloke" (Colour Sargeant, Scots Guards Depot Staff), to run over to Aldershot as we approached the main gate, a staff Ford Consul with loads of flags on it (Guards Staff Brigade), so I braked sharply and the whole bl--dy, cab shot forward pitching the Gold Bloke in to the corner of the windscreen. He was not well pleased I can tell you,of course I had'nt a clue what had happened but the Picket Sgt knew and after we got out, they tilted it back and put the locks on it which the REME had of course forgot to do when they did the pre release check.
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The thing about vehicles of the Austin Champ era is that there was a lot of interchangeability of components between other vehicles.
The Champ, for example, had many similar parts to a number of armoured vehicles, the most noticeable of these was the instrument panel.
We welcomed the Bedford MK with open arms, it looked modern, it was comfortable to drive but oh, those brakes! One touch of the pedal at low speed and it was like hitting a brick wall. No matter how many times I tried to get REME to ease them off a little I always got the same answer, "They can't be altered, get used to it".
Like smudger, we had a bloke killed, he was demonstrating to his mates how fast you could go in reverse, the Champ rolled over and that was the end of him.
Those familiar with the Champ will remember the jolly jape that used to be inflicted on inexperienced drivers. If you put the transfer box lever into neutral it was impossible to drive off. Oh, we had to make our own fun in those days !
 
:ambivalence:Talking of Champs, there was one on station at 22 Coy. RASC Taunton, 1956/58.
Bloody thing spent more time in the REME workshops than on the road, always breaking down.
 
Trust the R.E.M.E. to cock it up, you should have given it the once over before driving it away. The problem was Paul Stacey not doing his job right(Ha Ha).
Dave
 
Always tried them out round the camp before signing for them, then the damn things broke down away from camp, usually miles away.
 
Eddie 14 said:
Phil, were they actually written off?
Dave
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Hi Dave - Most of them were damaged beyond repair or hull losses. An interesting site is the Aviation Safety Network, all countries losses, you have to look for the union flags for British losses. https://aviation-safety.net/database/
Another site is UK Military Aircraft Losses which shows that flying in the RAF was risky in the 1950s although there were a lot more aircraft in use. Things have got much safer these days. https://www.ukserials.com/losses_index.htm
Phil
 
Dave, Austin, Baz, Things were so different then, our expectations were not what they are today, you would have thought Dave, that I did it on purpose the way he chewed by A--e off, but he did buy me a coffee in the NAAFI in North Camp though, and we both had a little laugh at it. Its true Austin if it went wrong it did it at 5.30 in the middle of Otterburn Area, when it had just started snowing. The thing was Baz we did't have much money or entertainment, so we did improvise most of the time. Really I have to say, to you all now, I am a sad old man, how I miss those days, and the comradeship, and the danger, and would welcome it all back even for just a day.
 
Phil, I have just been reading a few of the accident reports, we do not know what goes on behind the scenes, do we? Two helicopters crashing into one another going back and forth to the Ark Royal, where was the Radar, maybe you can tell me what point I am missing.
Dave
 
Paul, I think we are all suffering the same way as you are with the present way of life, You are like me and my friend in Wolverhampton, alan, friends for 75 years.We moan about the exact same things which do not affect us directly but we say God help the generation in 50 years time. Paul reading between the lines,you sound a bit down, we all have to accept we are getting older and we miss those good old days. I thought you said you had a good following of army friends down there, ask them to give you a uplift. we cannot have this attitude on this site
Dave
 
We live in a constantly changing world and we just have to accept that things are different to when we were young, but not necessarly worse or better, I am 84 in June and still enjoy life, different it may be. Our parents and Grand parents no doubt thought the same about our generation. Eric
 
Eddie 14 said:
Phil, I have just been reading a few of the accident reports, we do not know what goes on behind the scenes, do we? Two helicopters crashing into one another going back and forth to the Ark Royal, where was the Radar, maybe you can tell me what point I am missing.
Dave
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There seemed to be an acceptance in those days that aircraft will crash !
I started looking at those data bases when I was posting in the thread about one of the 'unsolved mysteries on the forum' click/here.
The way aircraft were 'dropping' out of the sky in earlier years did surprise me and I can see now why they handed out parachutes to us 'erks' when we were ordered to go up on test flights in multi engine aircraft. I've always been interested in aviation since I was very young watching my dad building model aeroplanes on the kitchen table. An interesting forum aviation picture click/here of how it was in earlier times.
 
Phil, what was the aircraft that you had to step over the framework which passed through the fuselage, was that the valettas
Dave.
 
Phil ,I have some photo's of the last air show at castle Bromwich with the comet 4b doing a low fly past, a beautiful sight because it was the first one I believe. Little did I know that I would be flying on that type many times in my working life. S.A.S the Swedish airline used to have a few as I was back and forth in the 50's and 60's. A lovely airplane, I could tell a few stories about them but that would mean going off the thread.
Dave
 
Dave, Austin, thanks for the slap on the back, but I can tell you honestly I rarely get "Down" I have a fairly ebullient nature, my poor old Missus is quite ill so most of my time is taken up with her care. My son William JNCO 51Sdn RE Para, has just walked through the door, and my son Christopher has only just got off the phone, I do have good friends here some of whom are ex Military, and we swing the lamps and pull up sandbags and talk about National service and military in general, fairly regularly. Although sadly one, has just gone, AWAL, to that great parade ground in the sky, my old mate Ex Sapper, Joe (smiler) Williams, Ex,39ENG RGT, 51 Sqdn RE, I will be at his funeral Monday 31st March, to say so long a bit mate. I don't have a bad life really , fairly good health, very few money worries, though not rich by any stretch, nice home ECT. I'm lucky really, and I do so love the forum, and this thread in particular. Regards paul
 
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