pjmburns
master brummie
Don't forget that for most of her stay leading up to her death she was very ill. That was one reason for getting the family into the countryside.
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- Thread starter BrummieGeoff
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I thought that too Lyn in my post #16.
yes i read your post viv...
just going back to the original photo and looking more closely at it...it does seem that there is either a track or lane running past fern cottage.. is the photographer standing inside the gates of a property opposite the cottage? if he is it could be an idea to look at maps that may show fern cottage and a property opposite....just an idea..
also the photo i posted on post 56 proves the cottage was there in recent time but i also noticed on the right of that photo is a rounded wall...i wonder if that could give us any clues as to its location within the oratory retreat ground..
lyn
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pjmburns
master brummie
On 1921 census his address seems to be 230 Leach Green Lane.
1911 has no number
According to Dr Ben Felderhof in "The Shire Way" it was previously Woodside Cottage at 430 Lickey Road (see point 2 of the Executive Summary) Here's a (poor copy of) the map.
And an extract about Woodside in italics. John Till was the retired postman and his cottage was beside the entrance to the Oratory Retreat.
By the summer of 1904, Mabel had recovered enough to be discharged from hospital, although she may have been advised that she would benefit from a spell in the countryside rather than returning to cramped accommodation in the city.317 Father Francis Morgan proposed that she convalesce in Rednal, a small village eight miles south-west of Birmingham, where Cardinal Newman had built a house which the clergymen of the Oratory used as a ‘Retreat’ [Map 8:A]318.He found lodgings for her and the boys in ‘Woodside Cottage’ (now Fern Cottage) [Map 8:2],beside the entrance to the Retreat. The cottage was owned by a retired local postman, John Till (1849-1923), and with Mabel in no state to cook, the Tolkiens would have their meals prepared for them by John’s wife, Louisa Till (1849-1928).319 And so, in June 1904, Mabel met her two boys on a train, describing their appearance as that of ‘weak white ghosts’, and together they travelled to their new home.
And an extract about Woodside in italics. John Till was the retired postman and his cottage was beside the entrance to the Oratory Retreat.
By the summer of 1904, Mabel had recovered enough to be discharged from hospital, although she may have been advised that she would benefit from a spell in the countryside rather than returning to cramped accommodation in the city.317 Father Francis Morgan proposed that she convalesce in Rednal, a small village eight miles south-west of Birmingham, where Cardinal Newman had built a house which the clergymen of the Oratory used as a ‘Retreat’ [Map 8:A]318.He found lodgings for her and the boys in ‘Woodside Cottage’ (now Fern Cottage) [Map 8:2],beside the entrance to the Retreat. The cottage was owned by a retired local postman, John Till (1849-1923), and with Mabel in no state to cook, the Tolkiens would have their meals prepared for them by John’s wife, Louisa Till (1849-1928).319 And so, in June 1904, Mabel met her two boys on a train, describing their appearance as that of ‘weak white ghosts’, and together they travelled to their new home.
Attachments
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And this from Denis Bridoux's "Beyond Bree" describing the position of the cottage:
Father Francis Morgan found lodgings (bedroom and sitting room) for her and her sons with Mr. Till, postman in Rednal, and his wife. They lived in Woodside Cottage (now Fern Cottage), set about 40 feet away from the main road and directly adjoining the back of the Oratory Retreat,
Father Francis Morgan found lodgings (bedroom and sitting room) for her and her sons with Mr. Till, postman in Rednal, and his wife. They lived in Woodside Cottage (now Fern Cottage), set about 40 feet away from the main road and directly adjoining the back of the Oratory Retreat,
Is this the cottage (just below my yellow arrow) on Pedro's aeriel view? It would be to 5he rear of the Oratory Retreat building.
The terrain looks about right to the rear of the Retreat too in the B&W photo below. Photo shows sharp incline. And a faint outline of a structure at the rear of the Retreat (below yellow dot on photo).
The terrain looks about right to the rear of the Retreat too in the B&W photo below. Photo shows sharp incline. And a faint outline of a structure at the rear of the Retreat (below yellow dot on photo).
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Again, very faint, but is the white patch below my yellow dot, the cottage ? I don't think it's sky as it seems too white and too low among the vegetation.
Was thinking this colour view post #68 and the B&W photo in post #67 shows the entrance to the Oratory with the cottage (possibly) behind the building as per yellow dot's. The canopy/balcony has been removed.
To be clear, I think the two photos (#67 and #68) show the front entrance to the Oratory Retreat. Looking at the satellite view, presumably the front of the Retreat was where the steps lead up to the house (red marker) although because the house has been extended and altered over time the entrance could have been moved.
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In 1898, John Till was part of the Lickey End committee, one aspect being their agreement to support residents in distress. This might explain his willingness to open up two rooms in his cottage to the Tolkiens.
pjmburns
master brummie
I was puzzled by the reference to John and Louisa Till as the John Till (postman) in the article in post #59 is listed on census records with a wife Gertrude. He is the man who lives at 230 Leach Green Lane (house number from 1921 census). The article states he has lived there since he married in 1902
1911 census
A bit of research showed that he is the son of John and Louisa (John also a postman). However, they are listed on census records (1891 to 1911) at Lickey End PO over 3 miles away from where the Oratory Retreat is. Perhaps John and Louisa owned the cottage and Gertrude cooked the meals - unless Louisa travelled in daily. This address ties in with John being on the Lickey End committe.
1891 census for John and Louisa
1900 Kelly's entry
I did smile as this John is described as a "letter carrier" on the 1881 census.
Janice's last photo - could it be the edge of the Oratory burial ground - a cross headstone in view ?
pjmburns
master brummie
I thought the gravestones are all Cen=ltic crosses - at least Newman's was
Photo from Find a Grave website (https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2696166/oratory-retreat-cemetery)
Photo from Find a Grave website (https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2696166/oratory-retreat-cemetery)
I have no idea ! Maybe it was some sort of memorial, not a headstone.
couple of interesting links...one of them shows lots of photos of the inside and outside of fern cottage
lyn
sites.google.com
lyn
Fern Cottage
On the edge of the grounds of the Birmingham Oratory there stands a small house known as Fern Cottage. During Tolkien’s childhood it was occupied by the local postman and his wife. When Mabel Tolkien’s diabetes worsened, she and her sons relocated to the cottage where they could rent some space
sites.google.com
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Have posted this under the thread for Cardinal Newman.
www.ncronline.org
Moving Cardinal Newman's body runs into controversy
The Catholic church’s attempt to exhume and quietly move the body of Cardinal John Henry Newman has run into controversy, with some saying Newman’s dying wishes are being ignored.Church officials plan to move Newman’s remains from a grave in a small cemetery in the English town of Rednal to th
www.ncronline.org
The thread for any ongoing discussion about Cardinal Newman is here:
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