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Morand
- Thread starter LKehlet
- Start date
1911 has the family that were in Belgrave Road in 1901 now at 17 Warwick road Sparkhill,surname mispelt Morant
Sarah a widow born Newport monmouth, Eugene died in 1909
children
Eliza Whitfield Morand age 20 she married Herbert Edwin Smith in 1924
Alice Hilda Morand age 19 married Jonathan Bodger in 1922
Henrietta Maria 16 married George king in 1925
Loiuse Morand died in 1931 age 51.
In 1920 I have found Thomas John at Queensberry street, Carlton, Victoria, Australia he is a toolmaker.
sadly Herbert is in Selly Oak Workhouse in 1911 and 1939 in Erdington house, which I believe was part of Highcroft hospital .
Sarah a widow born Newport monmouth, Eugene died in 1909
children
Eliza Whitfield Morand age 20 she married Herbert Edwin Smith in 1924
Alice Hilda Morand age 19 married Jonathan Bodger in 1922
Henrietta Maria 16 married George king in 1925
Loiuse Morand died in 1931 age 51.
In 1920 I have found Thomas John at Queensberry street, Carlton, Victoria, Australia he is a toolmaker.
sadly Herbert is in Selly Oak Workhouse in 1911 and 1939 in Erdington house, which I believe was part of Highcroft hospital .
Thank you Alberta for your reply. I am the daughter of Thomas John Morand who eventually moved from Victoria to Sydney New South Wales Australia where he met and married my mother.
Thomas was born in 1893 and my aunt Henrietta was born in 1894. My other two auns Eliza and Alice were born in 1890 and 1891 respectively so the ages you have stated at their marriage are not correct.
My grandmother Sarah was living at 220 Stratford Road Sparkbrook in 1918 because it is mentioned in my fathers military records.
I am amazed at the information you were able to obtain. The details you gave about Sarah and Herbert are correct l only recently found out where Herbert had been placed. He was Sarah's stepson and unfortunately referred to as an imbecile in one of his birth records. Sarah was the second wife of Eugene Morand. Louise that died in 1931 was also Sarah's stepdaughter. They were the children of Elizabeth Luker - Eugenes first wife who died the same year Herbert was born. I always wondered if she died in childbirth. I have not been able to find out.
Alberta I would be grateful if you could find out any more information about my father's family.
Thomas was born in 1893 and my aunt Henrietta was born in 1894. My other two auns Eliza and Alice were born in 1890 and 1891 respectively so the ages you have stated at their marriage are not correct.
My grandmother Sarah was living at 220 Stratford Road Sparkbrook in 1918 because it is mentioned in my fathers military records.
I am amazed at the information you were able to obtain. The details you gave about Sarah and Herbert are correct l only recently found out where Herbert had been placed. He was Sarah's stepson and unfortunately referred to as an imbecile in one of his birth records. Sarah was the second wife of Eugene Morand. Louise that died in 1931 was also Sarah's stepdaughter. They were the children of Elizabeth Luker - Eugenes first wife who died the same year Herbert was born. I always wondered if she died in childbirth. I have not been able to find out.
Alberta I would be grateful if you could find out any more information about my father's family.
pjmburns
master brummie
in the 1913 directory there is a firm listed Morand & Co cycle enamellers at 136 1/2 Hurst Street - is this linked to Sarah? She is also listed in the 1911 and 1912 rates books as paying rates on premises described as "warehouse and shopping" - this appears to be the premises in Hurst Street.
MWS
from Bham
On a slight tangent (which are always interesting) Eugene's first wife Elizabeth Luker seems to be registered Elizabeth Smith, the illegitimate daughter of a Charlotte Smith who subsequently married a James Luker.
She is not to be confused with the Elizabeth Luker whose birth and death were registered (coincidentally) in Chepstow in 1857.
She is not to be confused with the Elizabeth Luker whose birth and death were registered (coincidentally) in Chepstow in 1857.
pjmburns
master brummie
If you obtain Elizabeth's death cert you should be able to see what she died from. Assuming the record found by MWS in Chepstow is correct.
Thank you once again for all this information on my family. I realise I did get Herbert's year of birth wrong. I do have his birth year as 1882. Herbert also had another sister Edith Josephine Morand and she was born in 1881 and died in 1886.
It is interesting that you say Elizabeth Luker was originally Elizabeth Smith because Sarah's mother's maniden name was Jane Smith but she was born in Tenby Wales. I know it's a common name but interesting just the same.
In regard to the cycle enamellers this information is correct. I believe Sarah and family carried on with this business for a number of years. My father Thomas left the UK in 1914 and sailed on the "Irishman" from Liverpool to Melbourne, Australia. He enlisted in the Australian Flying Corps in 8thSquadron in 1917 and went back over to the UK and trained at Wendover. He also visited Sarah at 220 Stratford Road. He returned to Australia and was discharged from the Australian Imperial Force in 1920. He received the British War Medal because the AFC was the early forerunner of the Air Force and was under British command. My fathers early life has always been a bit of a mystery because he lost all contact with his family after WW1.
I knew about Jean Lesserre Morand being the name of my french great grandfather but only because it is mentioned on Eugenes marriage certificate. My father said he knew his french grandparents so I assumed they lived near Birmingham somewhere but I have never been able to trace them.
Thanks Alberta, PjmBurns and MWS for all your help so far. Just to let you know whilst on a trip to the UK in 2005 I was able to find 2 first cousins after going through the records in London of births deaths and marriages. They were the 2 daughters of Alice Morand. I made contact with them through Genes Reunited and it was wonderful. There were no other children from my other 2 aunts but I am the youngest of 7 children.
It is interesting that you say Elizabeth Luker was originally Elizabeth Smith because Sarah's mother's maniden name was Jane Smith but she was born in Tenby Wales. I know it's a common name but interesting just the same.
In regard to the cycle enamellers this information is correct. I believe Sarah and family carried on with this business for a number of years. My father Thomas left the UK in 1914 and sailed on the "Irishman" from Liverpool to Melbourne, Australia. He enlisted in the Australian Flying Corps in 8thSquadron in 1917 and went back over to the UK and trained at Wendover. He also visited Sarah at 220 Stratford Road. He returned to Australia and was discharged from the Australian Imperial Force in 1920. He received the British War Medal because the AFC was the early forerunner of the Air Force and was under British command. My fathers early life has always been a bit of a mystery because he lost all contact with his family after WW1.
I knew about Jean Lesserre Morand being the name of my french great grandfather but only because it is mentioned on Eugenes marriage certificate. My father said he knew his french grandparents so I assumed they lived near Birmingham somewhere but I have never been able to trace them.
Thanks Alberta, PjmBurns and MWS for all your help so far. Just to let you know whilst on a trip to the UK in 2005 I was able to find 2 first cousins after going through the records in London of births deaths and marriages. They were the 2 daughters of Alice Morand. I made contact with them through Genes Reunited and it was wonderful. There were no other children from my other 2 aunts but I am the youngest of 7 children.
MWS
from Bham
In 1881 Eugene is listed as a French Teacher and he, Elizabeth and Louise are living at Newhall Hill, Bham.
In 1891 Eugene is listed as a Manufacturer of Electrical Instruments and he, Sarah and 3 children are living at Belgrave Road. Name appears as Morando.
There are also 2 further children, Eugene Edward b & d 1878 and Edward Richard b1888 & d1889
In 1891 Eugene is listed as a Manufacturer of Electrical Instruments and he, Sarah and 3 children are living at Belgrave Road. Name appears as Morando.
There are also 2 further children, Eugene Edward b & d 1878 and Edward Richard b1888 & d1889
That is amazing. I knew about Richard (I didn't know he was Edward Richard) but knew nothing of Eugene Edward. What a sad time for my grandfather Eugene losing a wife and daughter and having a son institutionalised from his first marriage and losing two sons from his second marriage. I guess that was not uncommon back then.
I have a copy of the 1891 census. It's the last time Herbert is mentioned. In the 1881 census Sarah and her mother Jane Lancaster and her sisters are living in Belgrave Road.
My grandfather seems to have been a jack of all trades. He is listed as a French teacher as was Elizabeth Luker and then manufacturer of electrical instruments and he has also been referred to as an electrician and electrical engineer. Then it appears he was in the cycle enamelling business.
I love that you are so kind in supplying me with lots of information and have taken the time to research all of it. So grateful!!
I have a copy of the 1891 census. It's the last time Herbert is mentioned. In the 1881 census Sarah and her mother Jane Lancaster and her sisters are living in Belgrave Road.
My grandfather seems to have been a jack of all trades. He is listed as a French teacher as was Elizabeth Luker and then manufacturer of electrical instruments and he has also been referred to as an electrician and electrical engineer. Then it appears he was in the cycle enamelling business.
I love that you are so kind in supplying me with lots of information and have taken the time to research all of it. So grateful!!
Thank you so much for all the above! I have just joined this forum as curious about my ancestry and so thrilled to find someone else (though 5 years ago) looking for the same people!
I really hope I can find out more.
Here is what I know from my Nanna's (one of LKehlet's cousins, daughter of Alice Hilda) findings in the 1990s.
" My maternal grandfather (Jean Eugene) was married to a Frenchwoman Angele, from Brittany, and they had a son, Herbert and a daughter, Louise. After the death of his wife he came to England and lectured at Mason College, Birmingham University. It was here that he married Sarah Elizabeth Lancaster on 28th May 1887 at Christ Church, Sparkbrook: at this time his profession is given as an electrical engineer.
Jean Eugene and Sarah Elizabeth had four children. Tom, the eldest, emigrated to Australia and spent the war in the Royal Australian Flying Corps. He married and had two sons ( is this correct?) and sadly the family (I'm guessing the England part of the family) lost touch. My mother's eldest sister, Eliza, known as Bessie lived all her life in Birmingham and was married to Bert, a widower with two children, but they had none from their union. My mother (Alice) was in the middle and then came Hettie. My mother, Alice HIlda, also known as Lily/Lil born on 31st October 1891, was a clever girl and she matriculated, but instead of going to university she became a pupil teacher. "
I would love to know if Jean Eugene, who was said to be an inventor and come up with inventions in the living room, taught also Physics or something else other than French at Mason College. He really was a jack of all trades.
I really hope I can find out more.
Here is what I know from my Nanna's (one of LKehlet's cousins, daughter of Alice Hilda) findings in the 1990s.
" My maternal grandfather (Jean Eugene) was married to a Frenchwoman Angele, from Brittany, and they had a son, Herbert and a daughter, Louise. After the death of his wife he came to England and lectured at Mason College, Birmingham University. It was here that he married Sarah Elizabeth Lancaster on 28th May 1887 at Christ Church, Sparkbrook: at this time his profession is given as an electrical engineer.
Jean Eugene and Sarah Elizabeth had four children. Tom, the eldest, emigrated to Australia and spent the war in the Royal Australian Flying Corps. He married and had two sons ( is this correct?) and sadly the family (I'm guessing the England part of the family) lost touch. My mother's eldest sister, Eliza, known as Bessie lived all her life in Birmingham and was married to Bert, a widower with two children, but they had none from their union. My mother (Alice) was in the middle and then came Hettie. My mother, Alice HIlda, also known as Lily/Lil born on 31st October 1891, was a clever girl and she matriculated, but instead of going to university she became a pupil teacher. "
I would love to know if Jean Eugene, who was said to be an inventor and come up with inventions in the living room, taught also Physics or something else other than French at Mason College. He really was a jack of all trades.